Is a high or low vantage point better?

thePiedPiper

thePiedPiper

New member
Got a question for the gurus. I seem to have hunting with trees and cover pretty down. Getting in and setting up , as long as you take in consideration the wind, is pretty much a non event for me, and no problem but...I also hunt a lot of areas that are flat as a table. Some are a little broken, or just rolling hills, but cover is generally not existent. If i don't lay down with a ghillie suit There may not be any cover, but there are coyotes. so, the question, When walking in to setup in areas like this, how do the pros go about it. Traditionally I have looked for a hill where I could see a long way, and try to creep over a the crest and get off the skyline. I have been giving this some thought, and think that I may be killing a lot of stands this way. It seems that it might be more effective to stay off the ridges and high areas all together, even if that means sacrificing seeing distance. If I just stay low, and set up where I can only see a hundred or so yards I may call in more coyotes because of a better setup, even though I can't see them coming for two miles. Does this sound right? or should I continue to make an effort to setup on a high vantge point, even though it generally is difficult to do so without getting seen? sorry so long. purist
 
I dont call alot of ground as you describe but when i do i stay low , I generally try to sit at least 2/3 of the way down on the lower ground . try to sit where you still have a vantage point and will be able to see a coyote approaching but you will not be sticking out like a sore thumb . This is the one type of set up that in my mind demands a decoy . when old whiley comes in , give him sompthing to look at besides the lump on the hill side. give it a try and let us know how this works for you , jerry .
 
If you have a little rise you might as well use it. Try not to sit skylined but still somewhere on the hill. In my experience, if you don't use the elevation, the coyote will and he will be up there looking for you!
 
Sure, we traditionally have been taught and do from experience use the rise if at all possible. This meaning that there is cover or a lip or anything to enable you to get there without being seen. But i don't think it is always wise to set up on one, as it may come at a greater cost than the benefit if you have to cross open hillside or a horizon to get there. Here is my point. If you sit down lower where you can't see, they can't see you. It almost like creating a forest situation on the open plain. when that coyote is within eyesite, you should be able to kill it. set the wide open to your down wind side, call where you can only see for a hundred yards or so, and have your gun up and ready. He'll either cicle to the wide open down wind, or show up on the horizon you chose not to cross. When the dog pauses to figure out the lump he just spotted, it is too late, he's dead. I understand that it is good to sit on a vantage point, but is it needed? Alot of times in my experience, in country that is generally wide open, going up a hill at all produces a negative situation, the higher you go the more visible you are, from further away. just a thought. thanks for the replies. purist
 
Given a choice, I'll take the elevated spot almost every time. For me at least, visibility of the area I'm calling is one of the most important aspects of my chosen stand. I much prefer calling areas with breaks and elevation changes since they usually provide better visibility of the area. Again, given the choice, I'd rather not limit my field of view. Too many variables when trying to estimate exactly where a Coyote might show up. A good view of your surrounding area helps reduce the variable of a Coyote not showing up in a chosen narrower field of view.

I've never worried too much about a Coyote spotting me as it's coming into the call. Actually, seems like most of them do, they just don't know what I am. Hopefully, I've already spotted them, by the time they try to figure out what that lump is I got a bead on em. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I almost always call & shoot prone, so I use any hill there is no matter how small. I tried to call from a low spot when I first started and always had coyotes looking down at me laughing. The exception is absolute flat prairie. Then I still lay prone and call as long as I stay still it works for me. My favorite is to go to the downwind side of the property, hide the truck and hike in or ATV(depends on the mph of the wind) in to a hill, climb over until I have a good view and lay down and call, then move into the wind until I reach the end of the property. Most times My partner & I walk and retrieve them later with a ATV.
 
Purist
The Doctors always call from elevation when it is at all possible. You can't overestimate the benefits of increased visibility. I'll use an example to illustrate why we are so adamant about this. (sorry weasel, no pics)
Two weeks ago we were on stand and had called for what would have normally been "long enough". We had even stayed an extra long time because we thought it had bobcat possibilities. Just as we were getting ready to leave, Doc3 saw a coyote steaming to us from about a mile away. Without that elevation, we would have been long gone before this coyote ever showed up. As it was, he raced in to 300 yards. It is such a help to be confident there isn't a coyote 150 yards away and coming to you when you decide to leave a stand.
If you are worried about skylining (which is a good thought) there are a couple solutions.
1. Simply call from the ridge that you are afraid to cross. If you skyline yourself crossing it, you should have good enough visibility to call from it without going to the next one.
2. Approach the ridge you intend to call from less directly. Use the terrain to approach from the low areas behind the ridge, even if its not a direct approach.

Finally, like dakota we usually call prone. We may even crawl the last little ways to our position which helps with the skylining. We have came over ridges less than 400 yards from coyotes and not been seen using this tactic. Also, use binocs on your approach to see them before they see you.

So many callers aren't concerned with stand approach, you have definitely thought about this problem which is great. We call a LOT of open country and this is what works for us. Good Luck
Doc
 
Others have voiced my opinion, but, let me add that you can't shoot what you can't see. High vantage point is the best option IMO without profiling yourself.

Now, here is something we do that has been a big help on relatively flat terrain. In the back of the pickup, I keep an 8' wood stepladder. We have seen increased success by using the top step in flat country. We guess that it may be cause coyotes don't often look up, or that the scent stream may be diffuse by the higher location. In fact, the past two times we have called on flat desert country, we used two such ladders and we seemed totally invisible to approaching coyotes.

Don't laugh too hard until you try it!
 
Doc and handloader, thanks for the input. I agree with everyone that a high vantage is better. I am just concerned about getting there, your thoughts help. when I hunt alone my success rates are far better than when I add a partner or two. The reason i have decided is that I sneak and hunt better when alone, lying prone and crawling are second nature. but as soon as i add some one, I get worse at this, and it quickly becomes more of a social event, I nned to get better at that.

Handloader, so you just put a ladder out on the graound and climb up and start calling? incredible, this is during the daytime, right? hmmm... neat idea. i have a hard time thinking that it would work, but i'll try anything. thanks.
 
pruist: that's about right, although, I try to blend a bit with any tree handy or tall brush.

Now, let me pull another little item out of the bag of tricks that may have you laughing, but, I swear it is effective. Regular Ben Gay! While there are all sorts of scent maskers, Regular Ben Gay seems to actually be an attractant. You are on the ladder feeling kinda strange the first time and now I am telling you to put some ointment on the lower rungs. Oh, Yeah!

Now if you choose to call from the ground, the Ben Gay on the instep of your boot will do fine. Use sparingly. I've got one photo of a coyote licking my boot, my Ben Gay* rubbed boot! No, I didn't shoot him, I was laughing so hard when he turned himself inside out trying to put distance between us.

Again, try it, just try it.

*The Ben Gay packaging isn't as great as the product; keep the tube in a plastic baggie. I learned the hard way and found my calling gear saturated with the stuff, which saturated the atmospher of house and shop.
 
Great threat, especially since I still really suck at this whole calling thing.

Another scenario for the experts:

Yesterday I attempted calling in an area which is flat but is laced with canyons. These canyons were formed over the years by erosion and very in depth from 40 feet and 100 feet wide, to 100 feet deep and ¼ mile wide. They have quite a few cedars on the sides of the canyons for cover. The land above the canyons is flat with a few low ridge lines and the usual prairie type cover.

I worked into the wind but I was really unsure as to whether I should specifically work the canyons or stay on the flats and try to draw them out of the canyons.

Nothing worked but I was hunting with a young fellow who didn’t really understand the concept of silence and using what little cover we had. I’m going back to this area later in the season and wanted some advice on tactics
 
Ben Gay? You gotta be kidding. If thats working in your area you must have some retarded dogs around there. I think I'll pass on that suggestion.
 
handloader, I will try it in the morning! Why not? KEep them coming, these are great ideas.

p.s. it wasn't a real hunt, but i killed one this morning off of a buffalo carcass. thats my insider tip to you handloader! find something dead and drive up to it real slow with your gun out the window. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Originally posted by doggin coyotes:
[qb]Ben Gay? You gotta be kidding. If thats working in your area you must have some retarded dogs around there. I think I'll pass on that suggestion.[/qb]
Click to expand...
What's a matter with you! Don't tell me you are a Ben Gayaphobic! Of course, you can choose from a range of scent masking agents, but, IMHO Ben Gay beats "Coyote Urine" and "Skunk". Or, were those headbanger groups? Sigh Those coyotes may have been retarded, but, they are definitely dead.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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