Is reloading really worth it??

F

fw707

New member
I guess it's a rhetorical question cause I've seen (read) the results on here and a lot of other places, but I must be missing something.

The last couple of months I've been loading 3 different calibers in 4 different guns: .243 Winchester, .243 AI, and .223 Rem, and my results have been pretty much pi$$ poor overall.
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The 4 different guns: a Tikka T3 Lite .243 Winchester, a 700 SPS Varmint with an HS Precision stock in .243 Winchester, a .243 Ackley Improved 700 action glass bedded in an old BDL stock, and a Colt HBar Match AR; with various Leupold VXII 4-12 and 6-18's and a couple of Zeiss Conquest 2.5-10's and 4.5-14's.
I have no idea how many loads I've tried with various combinations of at least 8 different powders,at least 8 different bullets, 3 different cases, and 3 different primers. FL sized, neck sized, trimmed, .010 off the lands, weighed and sorted cases, all done on a T-7 Press and Redding dies.
The BEST I've done with any of the guns/loads has been one or two loads that went under a half inch the first time I tried them, and I couldn't repeat the groups the next time I tried the load.

I took 5 new loads for the AI to the range today. I also took the SPS varmint and some cheap silver box 80 grain factory Winchester loads to plink around with while I was waiting for the AI barrel to cool between groups and guess what shot the best group of the day?
Yep, a .6 group with the SPS and WalMart ammo.
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So, is this reloading thing a constant struggle?
 
....ever hear of "in search of the lost grail"?....a diff twist on a famous saying...'sometimes an inaccurate rifle can be interesting'...some folks reload;others handload.....there's always something called golf....
 
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Reloading for me is just good fun - a hobby that was long overdue. I've had some very accurate guns to begin with, so maybe if that were not the case I wouldn't be as happy with what I have been able to do. Don't think I save any money really - maybe just enjoy shooting more for the same money in the looooong run. (I'm probably still a little in the hole at this point. :eek:) But I've been able to repeat and in most cases improve on my best factory loads in each rifle.

I'm sure my process isn't as complete as many who reload.
I clean good, but usually don't mess with primer pockets.
I neck size only, which helps with accuracy and case life.
I debur/chamfer, but don't check the necks like some do.
I do sort my brass... group them by brand, and by length.
I meticulously weigh ALL powder charges.
I use competition seaters - worth their weight in gold IMO.
And I always clean my gun good before group testing.
I also don't try to do any serious group testing in wind.
I use bags, both front and rear. Gotta be rock solid.
That's pretty much all I can think of, that I do anyway.
 
focus on one challenge...ur spreading ur skills over to much ground...one problem firearm at a time...put the others away...shoot a bucket of balls----with a rimfire.
 
Heh..heh, this is embarassing, but the best .223 groups I've ever shot have been with Hornady Varmint Express factory ammo. I've been reloading for 30 years and I can't find a load that will outshoot their factory ammo.

Now for big game hunting, I love 165 gr. Nosler Partitions in the .308. Since those are at least $35 a box (when you can even find any), I handload them. Pistol ammo, I have developed handloads that will drive tacks out of my Python.

My advice, if you want to develop very accurate ammo, is use a chrony and keep a record of loads and velocities. I'm betting you'll find that accuracy and velocity, in every bullet weight, are very closely related.

You should also go back to Wal Mart and grab as much of that .243 ammo as you can get your hands on, if it shoots that well in your rifle.
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I'd say "Chapped Lips" is more on the mark--Simplify your life.

You said "no idea how many loads I've tried with various combinations of at least 8 different powders,at least 8 different bullets, 3 different cases, and 3 different primers. FL sized, neck sized, trimmed, etc......"

Just pick one gun, one bullet, one powder, one primer. Forget the rest. Well not forget but the rest of those worries/options are small potatoes. Do the rest of what you do the same, reload with basic components as consistant as you can, and don't push the velocity.

When you have one gun sorted out, move on to the next.
 
I am always surprised that people still buy factory ammo.

Besides 22lr, I haven't boughtg factory ammo in over 20 years.
You know when a good box of 223 was $2.99
Premium 30-06 was $12
30-30 was $8

Yes, I was reloading then, and long before. I have stocked up on components over the years and haven't bought new components in 3 years... while watching the prices rocket skyward.

Anyone else remember just 3-4 years ago buying Mil-Surp 5.56 brass sized and primed $75/1000? Winchester bulk 55 grain bullets $35/1000?

I debated the cost savings back then... now it's a no brainer.
 
my hunting ammo is all factory stuff. 35 rem with hornady LE ammo, 308 with federal 150gr NBT, 243 with federal 100gr sierra game king BTSP. these all shoot 1 holer groups so why change.
I reload for economy. I shoot 4 pistol calibers and if was not reloading, I could not afford to shoot as much as I do.
I spend at least 2 days a month(6-7 hours each) at the range, so I burn up a lot of ammo. I, also, reload bulk bullets for my rifles which gives me trigger time with them.
Between rifles and pistol, I burn up about 500-1000 rounds a month, not counting rimfire stuff.
Reloading is definitely worth it. here is a link to determine your savings:http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingcosts.asp
 
It has oft been said that everything is relative. It's also been said, you get out what you put into it. I'm relatively new to reloading having also bought ammo commercially or having a former partner load for me. I have heard it said, commercial ammo is much better than it used to be. But I have also seen that the expense of buying new ammo is at it's height of being ridiculous. In fact, for some (including meself) it's either load my own or cut way back on shootin. What I have learned, is that loadin your own is not only fun to do, it can be darn accurate if you take it slow and pay attention to what you are doing. As to the grouping... that depends on what you put into loading and whether you have a REASONABLE expectation of how well you will score. When groups get down to around 1/2" or below, you've got a darn good shootin weapon and you are getting closer to the sometime illusive one hole - 5 shot group. Even few Benchrest Shooter get that and look at what they go through. I dare say any 5 shot group at or under 1/2" will take down just about any beast and it's fine shootin by just about anybody's standard. I can't afford to do the kinda of shootin I enjoy every week if I kept going to Walmart (hate that place). But like I said, its relative. So to each to his own. You get out what you put in. If driving to Walmart makes you feel happy, great! I'm sure they love your patronage. For me, I'll keep reloadin and looking for that same illusive one hole - 5 shot pattern without jumping through the hoops of extremes. I know I'll NEVER get it, but its the attempts to get there that I find challenging and rewarding. At the same time, I also know I'll never get those result from Walmart ammo either. BTW and not braggin, I have gotten a three shot pattern the size of a dime at 100 yards with home brew in my .308. That too was only after years of practice.

Good luck and I hope you find happiness in whatever you decide to go with.
 
FW707, I understand your frustration, and have to agree Chapped Lips,,,, Tackle one situation at a time...For instance,

Select your .223 (potentially the most common cartridge reloaded on this board) and start from scratch....Grab your manual and spec out 100 pieces of new brass to work with, forget all the others..

Take a common .223 powder (really doesn't make any difference which one) that has a good reputation for consistency of results.

Re-check the settings on all of your dies.... While most all dies will produce reasonably good ammo, there are qualities that are measurable in some that cost a little more and may be worth the expense.

You will need several hundred bullets/primers available to work with your selected cases, unless you get really lucky and find that 'bug hole' load the first few times out..it does happen once in awhile..

Be sure all your specs are 1) consistent, 2) within published specs, and 3) recorded so they can be repeated, or avoided in the future..even to the point if weighing your bullets, so they are all the same actual weight..and seat the bullets the same, measured off the ogive...not the nose of the bullet.

Load 50 rounds, starting one full grain below any published max load and load ten at that point, increase .2 grain and load another ten, etc, until you are at the max published load (actually you will be .1gr below)

If you can,,,stabilize your rifle where the only human contact will be when you trip the trigger....set your point of aim in the same spot and don't worry about point of impact.. Fire five rounds and move to the next load factor...reserving five for verification later.

I set my targets up with multiple points of aim, written down on a note pad and my brass is marked with a sharpie as to the powder charge, so I can keep them logged correctly.
I accidentally dumped a box at a range (45 miles away) and had no idea what loads were what...by marking each cartridge, I solved that problem in advance..

Somewhere in your results, you will find a better than average group and that is the one you will need to start 'tweaking' to get it where you want it...(seating depth, primer change, powder, etc).... Just remember to only change one factor at any time...

If you are only interested in general "hunting loads", there is nothing wrong with 1MOA groups....If you are wanting to hit a very small target at longer than average distances, then the groups need to be fairly tight..

Welcome to reloading and "the Quest"...
 
I believe reloading is one of the best things about shooting and hunting!! I personally save ALOT of money by reloading! I shoot a 220 swift and the only place that sells factory ammo around me is Gander "Rip off" Mountain and a couple of mom and pop stores that want atleast $30 a box for 20! REDICULOUS!!! I also shoot a 7.7 Jap and finding ammo for that is like pulling teeth!! I can reload 220 swift for about 35¢ a round... where as if i bought factory it would be $1.50 a round.... and its also a great feeling for a hunter to shoot an animal and be proud because you loaded that bullet and not some factory!! And i dont look for tiny groups that i can cover 5 shots with a dime.... have i had a few of those.. yes but its not my goal... i want a good solid round with the type of bullet tip and velocity i am looking for for specific reasons! i have gone through about 1000 rounds of bullet tips and primers finding the load i think is good enough!! If you are looking to get benchrest type accuracy, you need benchrest equipment! if you are looking to reload for deer, groundhogs, and varmints, you should be good with the equipment you have!! Just my 2¢
 
I wouldn't be able to afford to shoot very much if I didn't reload. Factory ammo is way too expensive for me. I also get satisfaction out of putting together accurate ammo.

The only problem I have with reloading is finding components these days. that can be frustrating.
 
Hello Jeff,

A lot of good advise here, don't give up. Take your time, smell the Roses, enjoy what your doing, and it will all come together. Everyone is correct when they say work on one weapon at the time. I know it is hard to pick just one, but do as I have finally done, choose one main gun and stay with it and it's special loads. The others I tinker with for relaxation. But with my number one everything is pure bussiness each time at the Range as well as on the Loading Bench.

Heck when handloading/re-loading becomes work, it is time to take a break.

I will try to call sometime this week-end.

Larry
 
Originally Posted By: Chapped Lipsfocus on one challenge...ur spreading ur skills over to much ground...one problem firearm at a time...put the others away...shoot a bucket of balls----with a rimfire.

Well said.

Fitch
 
Check you barrel twist and make sure you are matching bullet weights and bearing surface to the twist. Faster twists like heavier/longer bullets. Slower twists like lighter/shorter bullets. Also, focus on flat base bullets as they stabilize faster than boat tails.

I have a Kimber 223 Longmaster with a 1:9 twist that won't shoot a 55 grain bullet worth a hoot but it is a one holer with 63 - 70 grain bullets. Drove me nuts trying to develop a 55 grain load because I was using quality bullets. I tried every powder and primer combination that made sense, nothing worked. I was about ready to send the gun back to Kimber then I tried some 63 grain bullets a buddy gave me. Just about any combination of powder and primer works for it.

I agree, work one at a time.
 
Thanks everybody for the suggestions and support.
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I think I've just been expecting too much too soon.

I'm gonna work on the .223 AR loads for a while and see how it turns out. Maybe I'll be a little bit ahead when the new DTech upper gets here.


Sorry about the rant.
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"the floggings will continue daily until morale improves"....now where have i seen that...hmmmm...hey,this airing beats walk'n around the house all glummed out....bucket of golfballs + rimfire= fun
 
fw707,
As you've noted, you've been given a lot of good advise and I can't add anything of value to it other than give you my experience with a 223 I have. Like many on here, I've been reloading for 30 plus years with pretty good success. Years back I bought a 223 that would not shoot under 3" groups. It didn't matter if it was commercial or handloads. Worst rifle I've ever bought. Went thru the whole accuracy adjustment thing and out of frustration, ended up pouring the stock full of bedding compound from one end of to the other. It actually helped.
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But still no groups under an inch. One day I was reading an old reloading manual with an article about some of the new chamberings that were gaining popularity. One of them was the 223. The powder they were getting good results with was H335, IMR 4198, and Win. 748. I had tried the first 2 plus several not mentioned as they weren't even on the market yet, but Win. 748? hmmm, I had forgot about that one.
In order to shorten this story up, that rifle went from 2" - 1 1/2" groups down to .5" with several bullet weights.

K22
 


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