Lead Ammo ban, [beeep]?

Suppressed in SD

Suppressed in SD

Member
Didn't know where to post this, maybe reloading forum would be better.

Apparently this has been coming for some time but was news to me. I just went to buy a new license for a nearby Indian reservation and found they have banned lead ammo. Not just shot gun ammo for waterfowl and pheasants but lead rifle bullets as well. It starts in 2017 for big game, but 2016 for small game. They include prairie dogs and coyotes as "small game". [beeep]? What kind of California Comunism has invaded South Dakota? Of course they state how there is no safe level of lead so therefore eating game shot with lead bullets is bad for you and lead-shot non-game animals is bad for birds and scavangers. This just wreaks of patronizing Obamaism. You know...its for my own good.

Being a reloader, this doesn't kill me, but is sure a pain in the a$$. My 123 AMAX shoots lights out, really not looking forward to paying twice as much for GMX and working up a load. Can't even believe what this is going to do to prairie dog hunting. Pretty much make it non-existent. It's already a rich man's sport, just gotta be richer now. Although this last year it was shut down (but only to the white man) due to "plague". Kinda funny cause when I drive by several towns the whole ground seems to be moving.
I don't really have a point here. Just wanted to bi+ch.
 
Wait until the fools ban guns on the res next. Their policies never make much sense. And they dont follow them anyway themselves. They probably voted for Obama twice also.
 
Supply and Demand. People will stop paying to hunt with non-lead projectiles and the reservation will lose money....Back to lead and problem solved.
 
I discovered the feds are requiring non lead on some land here.
Not sure how far back it goes, but others in the past have just purchased the proper qualifying bullets.
I believe it allows removing entire animal including gutpile or the bullets.
With big game almost everyone will choose the better bullet over packing gutpile
 
Hunt... I don't think they care about selling anything. Reservations are the pinnacle of socialism. They are given just enough and don't have any interest in making any more.

Funny thing is, I've been hunting there 4 years and have never been stopped. On several occasions I have been walking back to my truck in plain view and had the tribal game a fish just drive right on by. Could probably hunt there the rest of my life with lead bullets and never be checked.
 
I have had to shoot lead free ammo for quite a few years now and it is really a bad situation for some cartridges.

As far as I know there is still no decent 22 LR lead free ammo that shoots accurate or performs good on small game if you do happen to hit anything with it. So for shooting 22 LR ammo the cost is 3 to 5 times more and it doesn't work nearly as good as 22 LR lead ammo.

Most of the 22-250s, 220 Swifts and the 20 cal and 17 cal center fire rifles are not the same when you switch over to lead free bullets.

Lead free bullets that weigh the same as lead bullets are much longer than the same weight lead bullet. So many of the fast smaller caliber cartridges have to shoot much lighter lead free bullets because the slow twist in many of these rifles will not stabilize the longer lead free bullets.

I had a 1-8" twist barrel put on my 22-250 just so I could shoot the 55 gr and 62 gr lead free bullets.

Some calibers the only choice you have is to shoot copper bullets and the copper bullets are very expensive.

For big game hunting going to lead free bullets has not been that bad because I don't use much ammo on big game and the copper bullets do a good job on larger animals.

The Hornady 35 gr NTX lead free varmint bullet has been working good for me in my 223 Rem for squirrels and they are selling at a decent price, if you can find them.

The Nosler 243 cal 55 gr BT Varmint Lead Free bullets are working pretty good out of my 243 Win on coyotes and they are also selling for just a little more than lead bullets, if you can find them.

For lead free shotgun loads to use on predators you can buy steel loads that don't work nearly as good as lead shot or you can spend 3 to 4 times more money for the denser than lead loads that work much better than lead shot.
 
Well that suckes. But I live on the Nez Perce indian reservation and can't hunt at all on indian owned land I can hear the coyotes howl from my house in the evening and can't hunt them because the land is owned by the tribe
Good luck with the hunting
Foggy
 
Many of the good lead free options are constantly sold out or on backorder. Even from Barnes, who helped push the lead free movement forward. Friggin sucks. And CA's total lead ban hasn't even been fully implemented yet. Wait till 2018 when the panic buying starts up.
 
I'd really like to understand the reasons for going non-lead on reservations. I've heard the BS in Cali regarding condors and other ilk. What next? Shooting any projectile that's not a member of the periodic table of elements?
 
junk science..

I loved reading the reports that despite the ban the lead levels haven't gone down. Even the birds in captivity have rising lead..

This all assumes that lead is a rare thing.. News flash for the morons, lead is literally a natural element. It's also not a rare element. It's possible that stupid birds are eating it on their own. Indians never do anything that makes any kind of sense no matter where i have seen them. (WA, OR, ID, NM, AZ, UT) Socialism kills them and they could fix that if they wanted to, but like others said, they get just enough..

So the reports show that it was all a scam. That whole bullet claim never made sense.. Who is shooting the animals in the gut? I have shot 8 Elk in the past eight years. Not one gut shot, and I have recovered half the bullets in the opposite side against the hide. The bullet was always mushroom and intact. I am not a special case, so how is it condors are eating bullets in gut piles when it's not in there?

I personally have walked miles and miles.. But, I am way more likely to find a arrow head on the ground than a bullet. So how in the world are they finding and eating lead?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014...d-key/?page=all
http://springcreekprairie.audubon.org/sites/default/files/documents/condors_and_lead.pdf
http://www.independent.com/news/2014/dec/08/condors-continue-show-high-lead-levels/
 
^^^^NICE!!!!!! It's just the tip of the ice berg the tree hugging Obama loving antis don't have to ban or confiscate our weapons just take/make ammo too expensive/unavailable and we're left with expensive clubs
 
7 or 8 years ago I was ground squirrel shooting with two friends up in N Californis in the Surprize Valley area. We had an alfalfa farm we were shooting on where there were thousands. We had taken ammo for 17HMR, 22-250, .243, .223, and a few thousand rounds of a .22 that shoots fantastic in a remington 504-T heavy barrel I had. I was having a blast shooting off of a portable bench out to a little over 200 yards. I was using a range finder and had a cheat sheet for holdover. I had sore fingers from loading magazines.

We saw one of the craziest things we've ever seen, there were hundreds of seagulls, as soon as we would drop a squirrel they would fight over it, the winner would eviscerate it, squabble over the guts, they would leave the gutted carcass. And then one of the eagles that was circling around would dive on the squirrel and take it off to eat. We counted as many as over 50 eagles at a time and they were carrying squirrels off to nests non stop.

We shot some closer to see where the .22's were in the bodies after the seagulls gutted them. Some bullets go through, but there were a lot lodged in the back or legs. We switched to the .17's and center fire rounds so there weren't lead bullets in the squirrels where the eagles would get them.

One lead .22 bullet will make a sick eagle, two or three will kill it, a few #6 shot pellets will kill a duck.

This is one of those situations where you can always look up sources and find articles that support that this is junk science and that is what people will choose to believe because that is what they want to believe, it is reality. There is no point in an argument because those who think there is nothing to it will never believe any medical journal or other science review.

My wife is a bird specialty veterinarian, she sees birds all day long, both pets and commercial as well as backyard and pond birds. She sees several cases of lead toxicity every year. Toss a few BB shot pellets to your chickens, pigeons, or ducks and see how long they live. I have seen turkeys eat airgun pellets and show signs within a couple of days, and pond swans, geese and ducks dying from trap pellets. When a veterinarian sees neurological signs of lead poisoning, and then sees pellets in the gizzard in xrays it's pretty conclusive.
 
I had a polite fellow who claimed to also be a hunter/shooter call to ask if they could come and sit on our sagerat platforms and do observations of the birds. They would capture and tag some of the birds and find the nests later to see the affect of carcass consumption on reproduction. I was just as polite in telling him that ammo was already hard to find and I could see no upside in this for me. And, again politely, I declined.
 
Originally Posted By: skinneyHmmm... Leaves more to us since We're using spun copper projectiles.

Wow, skinney. For someone who is generally thoughtful and on target, that was pretty shortsighted....
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The animals get lead from eating CA communists. CA communists have abnormal lead amounts in their brains. That is so when global warming and earthquakes hit you will all sink quickly to hedoubletoothpics. A quick move to flint would be advisable for CA communists.
 
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Shouldn't all those seagulls and eagles be dead 100x over in Surprise Valley? They gobble up squirrel carcasses by the thousands. How are they possibly still thriving in such large numbers, if lead is so toxic to them?

I've shot thousands there myself.
 
Originally Posted By: Suppressed in SDSkinney, what do you mean by "spun copper projectiles"?

Monolithic rounds, each piece is machined, unlike the traditional jacketed lead rounds. Trust me I'm definitely no greenie, you've got my word. However I know locals who will not allow any lead on their ground, fortunately for me, and my team, we are working with a great manufacturer, Cutting Edge Bullets, who make solid copper and brass projos, it has opened our killing field. My relationship with them stemmed from a LR discussion and me looking into the BC of their rounds that were almost if not just as high as some lead jacketed rounds, that were 20 grains heavier (regarding the 338 cal). I now use the 60 grain Raptors with my 22-250 for coyotes, and in all honesty have had more performance than I could ask for not only with knock down, but in particular, keeping the fur in tact.

Originally Posted By: tt35
Wow, skinney. For someone who is generally thoughtful and on target, that was pretty shortsighted....
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I'll just leave this be, understanding my satire is sometimes not as transparent as I should make it be, when intertwined with fact, it makes it harder yet. My apologies.
 


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