LEE FL DIES VS RCBS FL DIES?
- Thread starter DEFCON
- Start date
CatShooter
New member
RCBS "out-sources" their dies, so costs for specials are very high.
Look at Redding - much better quality... it's $40.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=564912
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Look at Redding - much better quality... it's $40.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=564912
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t/c223encore
New member
LEE is for poor people like me.
t/c223encore.
t/c223encore.
Dave Allen
New member
hello..as mentioned take a look at redding...
yotenaylor
New member
Go with lee. its good stuff and they stand behind there products. Thru tinkering I found that I can use my 22-250 lee collet dies with my 22-250 AI, but I also have a FL set from lee that I bought when I got the gun chambered. I paid more than 27 bucks for it though.
Lee makes good stuff, and its very durable. Is it the best out there? All I know is that the only tru benefit I have ever seen from spending alot on a die was a forstner micrometer seating die. But, the same info MIGHT have been derived with a micrometer,a lot more elbow grease and trigger time.
Lee makes good stuff, and its very durable. Is it the best out there? All I know is that the only tru benefit I have ever seen from spending alot on a die was a forstner micrometer seating die. But, the same info MIGHT have been derived with a micrometer,a lot more elbow grease and trigger time.
TimberDawg
New member
The one thing nice about Lee dies is the red storage container........when you use them to prop open the door you don't trip on them. Spend the money and get some Redding dies, you won't regret it.
BHLBAMA
New member
Lee dies are crap. Someone said earlier that they stand behind there products - which is crap too!!!! It wasnt worth the $19 I paid for the set of dies...... to go through all the trouble they wanted me to do to replace a broken full length sizing die from them. I really like Hornady custom dies and ofcourse who doesnt like Reddings for the money. Pay $10-15 more each set a get something that'll last.
BHLBAMA
New member
You are talking about close to I'm sure a $1000 rifle and wanted to pinch pennies on the most important aspect of shooting in loading the bullets. I could understand if it was a H&R single shot or a stevens 200. This should be a no brainer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
IDBob
New member
Ah yes the Lee bashers are at work. After 45 years of reloading and competition shooting I've found Lee dies to be excellent quality and they have produced thousands of rounds of good ammo for me.
I've used about every brand of die on the market and most all of them performed well and produced good ammunition if used according to instructions, so buy the brand you like.
Last year I broke one of Lee's nice little hand primers arm. When I tried to order a new $3.50 one for this ten year old tool the nice lady at Lee sent me one free. When I needed a new collet that was a few thousands different than the one that came with my 204 die set they replaced it for free. Yes customer service there must really be bad.
Get the dies you want, but it's sure hard to beat the die sets from Lee that include both a full length sizer and a collet neck sizer. The collet neck sizer requires no case lubrication and extends case life dramatically.
I'm getting half inch groups with most of the ammo loaded for my varmint rifles and inch or less groups with my big game loads in several different calibers, yes Lee dies certainly are a bad deal, at least for the game I shoot at. Humff.
I've used about every brand of die on the market and most all of them performed well and produced good ammunition if used according to instructions, so buy the brand you like.
Last year I broke one of Lee's nice little hand primers arm. When I tried to order a new $3.50 one for this ten year old tool the nice lady at Lee sent me one free. When I needed a new collet that was a few thousands different than the one that came with my 204 die set they replaced it for free. Yes customer service there must really be bad.
Get the dies you want, but it's sure hard to beat the die sets from Lee that include both a full length sizer and a collet neck sizer. The collet neck sizer requires no case lubrication and extends case life dramatically.
I'm getting half inch groups with most of the ammo loaded for my varmint rifles and inch or less groups with my big game loads in several different calibers, yes Lee dies certainly are a bad deal, at least for the game I shoot at. Humff.
Raidman
New member
Ditto on that Bob: I have been making bullets, loading and shooting for almost 50 years now and I have used just about every die made. I have a lot of Redding dies and they are fine but I don’t find the ammo loaded with Redding shoots any better than Lee. I recently bought a set of Hornady custom dies in 17 Remington Fireball and the full length sizer worked great but I ask anyone who uses the bullet seater to measure the run out and then tell me what they think of the dies. I have found that the run out on Redding dies is no better than Lee and I think they are an excellent value for young people getting into loading.
Ok Catshooter, let’s hear your rebuttal
Ok Catshooter, let’s hear your rebuttal
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
"... Ok Catshooter, let’s hear your rebuttal
OK, I rebuttal that!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Here's the skinny...
Reloading equipment has a fairly high mark up. Wholesale is 1/2 of retail... which is why you can buy a $100 die set for ~$60 through mail order.
So go and look at the Lee warranty - fix or replace for two years.
After that, fix or replace for 50% of "retail" (aka LIST) price.
So you have your Lee $200 "Brokomatic" press that you paid $110 for. After 2 years and 1 week, it "brokes".
So you send it back to Lee, and they fix it, but they charge you 50% of the $200 list price (= $100), which is the same amount that they charge when they sell it to the guy you bought it from - so you have NO warranty after two years.
They just fix yours, and charge you what they would charge for a new one, and send you the broken (and repaired) one back.
So... you paid $110 for a press, and you get it repaired for $100... that SUX!!
That's a warranty for idiots who live in Rio Linda.
Now... ol' timers know that RCBS isn't the company it once was... but if you have a RCBS product that is 30 years old, and it goes "TU", you get it fixed or replaced with a new one FOR FREE... FOREVER... your kids get it fixed or replaced FREE... FOREVER.
You buy an RCBS press or dies at a flea market or on eBay, and they are broken or defective, you get it fixed or replaced with a new one FOR FREE... FOREVER... no matter who bought it.
Same with Redding, and Forster.
THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!
.
"... Ok Raidman, let’s hear your rebuttal!"
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
HA! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
.
"... Ok Catshooter, let’s hear your rebuttal
OK, I rebuttal that!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Here's the skinny...
Reloading equipment has a fairly high mark up. Wholesale is 1/2 of retail... which is why you can buy a $100 die set for ~$60 through mail order.
So go and look at the Lee warranty - fix or replace for two years.
After that, fix or replace for 50% of "retail" (aka LIST) price.
So you have your Lee $200 "Brokomatic" press that you paid $110 for. After 2 years and 1 week, it "brokes".
So you send it back to Lee, and they fix it, but they charge you 50% of the $200 list price (= $100), which is the same amount that they charge when they sell it to the guy you bought it from - so you have NO warranty after two years.
They just fix yours, and charge you what they would charge for a new one, and send you the broken (and repaired) one back.
So... you paid $110 for a press, and you get it repaired for $100... that SUX!!
That's a warranty for idiots who live in Rio Linda.
Now... ol' timers know that RCBS isn't the company it once was... but if you have a RCBS product that is 30 years old, and it goes "TU", you get it fixed or replaced with a new one FOR FREE... FOREVER... your kids get it fixed or replaced FREE... FOREVER.
You buy an RCBS press or dies at a flea market or on eBay, and they are broken or defective, you get it fixed or replaced with a new one FOR FREE... FOREVER... no matter who bought it.
Same with Redding, and Forster.
THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!
.
"... Ok Raidman, let’s hear your rebuttal!"
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
HA! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
.
IDBob
New member
I guess here's the common sense rebuttle.
Lee Reloading equipment and Presses
Every currently produced reloading press and reloading dies will reload ammunition. Strength requirements are not great. Material, weight, fit and finish of the press has little relationship to the quality of ammunition produced. Your choice of press and brands has been reduced through the years by the greatest of all equalizers, the competitive marketplace. Poorly made, badly designed, and costly presses are left by the wayside. Companies such as Bair, bonanza, Belding & Mull, Eagle, Herter’s, Herkner, Lachmiller, Ruhr-American and Texan are brand names long gone.
More interesting are the discontinued models of presses of existing manufacturers. The following presses were introduced to the public with great fanfare and rave reviews by eager recipients of free samples:
RCBS A-4, RCBS Junior, RCBS Reloader, Reloader 2, Reloader 3, Reloader 4
RCBS Green Machine and Big Max. from RCBS or Blount or Allient now and no longer in production.
Dillons’s discontinued list includes the 350, 350A, 350B, 450, 450A, 450B, 450JR, 550, 550A, RL1000, and the original Square Deal. There are many other discontinued models from contemporary manufacturers. They were not bad presses. They were all well made and aggressively promoted. For certain, they had shortcomings. The biggest defect was; they did not offer that which the consumer wanted. That could be many things, but the most important was the greatest value for the dollar.
Never assume reloaders are stupid. Most folks can recognize value. The little Lee Challenger aluminum press is an O frame design. This design makes the press very rigid while conserving material. Strong sections in the shape of an I beam and channel allows for a large opening at a 30 degree angle for easy access. It’s all the strength you’ll ever need for a lifetime of service. Of the hundreds of thousands sold, Lee’s service department had only one returned to the factory with a broken frame. That’s a pretty good testament. With a modicum of care Lee equipment and presses will last a lifetime.
As far as guarantee’s only two makers offer guaranteed satisfaction or your money back Lee and Dillon.
Lots of folks assume that if it costs more money it’s better. There are products that are made stronger and cost more than Lee products. There are no comparable products that work as well and cost less than Lee products.
Of course the simple fact that Lee sells more reloading equipment (that is not returned broken) than all other reloading equipment manufactures and is the worlds largest supplier of reloading equipment couldn’t possibly be because their equipment is such junk.
Humff again.
Here's my reloading bench. Lots of red stuff and except for a handle on a ten your old Lee autoprime that broke and was replaced free none of this stuff has broken. Thousands and thousands of rounds have went thru this equipment. Some folks could break an anvil with their bare hands given time. We've all known ham handed folks like that. Then they cry the anvil was defective.
Shotgun stuff also. Here's a 12 and 20 gauge loader on a lazy susan.
Of course on the cast bullet end about six thousand pounds of lead has poured thru this Lee melt pot. Bullets for the 38, 357, 40 S&W, 41 mag, 44 mag, 45 ACP and 45 long colt and several 30 and 32 caliber rifles have been made here with Lee molds.
Even a couple of grand daughters seem to be able to make good loads on this 15 year old Lee equipment without breaking it. Teenagers are supposed to be able to break anything.
Lee Reloading equipment and Presses
Every currently produced reloading press and reloading dies will reload ammunition. Strength requirements are not great. Material, weight, fit and finish of the press has little relationship to the quality of ammunition produced. Your choice of press and brands has been reduced through the years by the greatest of all equalizers, the competitive marketplace. Poorly made, badly designed, and costly presses are left by the wayside. Companies such as Bair, bonanza, Belding & Mull, Eagle, Herter’s, Herkner, Lachmiller, Ruhr-American and Texan are brand names long gone.
More interesting are the discontinued models of presses of existing manufacturers. The following presses were introduced to the public with great fanfare and rave reviews by eager recipients of free samples:
RCBS A-4, RCBS Junior, RCBS Reloader, Reloader 2, Reloader 3, Reloader 4
RCBS Green Machine and Big Max. from RCBS or Blount or Allient now and no longer in production.
Dillons’s discontinued list includes the 350, 350A, 350B, 450, 450A, 450B, 450JR, 550, 550A, RL1000, and the original Square Deal. There are many other discontinued models from contemporary manufacturers. They were not bad presses. They were all well made and aggressively promoted. For certain, they had shortcomings. The biggest defect was; they did not offer that which the consumer wanted. That could be many things, but the most important was the greatest value for the dollar.
Never assume reloaders are stupid. Most folks can recognize value. The little Lee Challenger aluminum press is an O frame design. This design makes the press very rigid while conserving material. Strong sections in the shape of an I beam and channel allows for a large opening at a 30 degree angle for easy access. It’s all the strength you’ll ever need for a lifetime of service. Of the hundreds of thousands sold, Lee’s service department had only one returned to the factory with a broken frame. That’s a pretty good testament. With a modicum of care Lee equipment and presses will last a lifetime.
As far as guarantee’s only two makers offer guaranteed satisfaction or your money back Lee and Dillon.
Lots of folks assume that if it costs more money it’s better. There are products that are made stronger and cost more than Lee products. There are no comparable products that work as well and cost less than Lee products.
Of course the simple fact that Lee sells more reloading equipment (that is not returned broken) than all other reloading equipment manufactures and is the worlds largest supplier of reloading equipment couldn’t possibly be because their equipment is such junk.
Humff again.
Here's my reloading bench. Lots of red stuff and except for a handle on a ten your old Lee autoprime that broke and was replaced free none of this stuff has broken. Thousands and thousands of rounds have went thru this equipment. Some folks could break an anvil with their bare hands given time. We've all known ham handed folks like that. Then they cry the anvil was defective.
Shotgun stuff also. Here's a 12 and 20 gauge loader on a lazy susan.
Of course on the cast bullet end about six thousand pounds of lead has poured thru this Lee melt pot. Bullets for the 38, 357, 40 S&W, 41 mag, 44 mag, 45 ACP and 45 long colt and several 30 and 32 caliber rifles have been made here with Lee molds.
Even a couple of grand daughters seem to be able to make good loads on this 15 year old Lee equipment without breaking it. Teenagers are supposed to be able to break anything.
Raidman
New member
Dam, I think I will let Bob do all my re-rebuttals. I didn’t know we were talking about presses; the post was Lee dies verses RCBS dies. Fred Huntington was a friend of mine and at that time they made very good equipment but things have changed. I still have 2 Rockchucker presses that I will likely use until I die. Ferris Pindell was my bullet making and shooting partner for many years and we never used anything but an arbor press to load on. Ferris worked for Sierra Bullets at that time and Frank Snow, who was one of the partners gave us all the reject bullets we wanted for testing. One batch of bullets that Frank gave me were 53 grain HP’s that had the nose deformed. They looked like someone had used a pair of pliers on them and shot better than any bullets that I had ever seen. Our fancy bullet presses with all parts lapped to 50 millionths tolerances could not duplicate those bullets. The moral of this story is that things aren’t always what they seem and I think that’s true of Redding dies. My Redding 223 competition seater leaves cuts all over the nose of the bullet; I know that doesn’t affect accuracy but it looks like hell. Cat you talked a lot about warranties but at my age that means nothing to me, I don’t even buy green bananas anymore.
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
Fred Huntington was a friend of mine and at that time they made very good equipment but things have changed.
I was Fred's largest dealer east of the Mississippi, when he still ran the company, and got a case of black olives from him every Christmas.
Quote:
Cat you talked a lot about warranties but at my age that means nothing to me, I don’t even buy green bananas anymore.
HA!... I hear that!! I don't worry about the dates on milk for the same reason /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
.
Fred Huntington was a friend of mine and at that time they made very good equipment but things have changed.
I was Fred's largest dealer east of the Mississippi, when he still ran the company, and got a case of black olives from him every Christmas.
Quote:
Cat you talked a lot about warranties but at my age that means nothing to me, I don’t even buy green bananas anymore.
HA!... I hear that!! I don't worry about the dates on milk for the same reason /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
.
IDBob
New member
I guess what bothers me worst is bashers. Over 50 years hunting, 27 years running a little gunsmith business and more years than I can count shooting competition with rifles and Pistols in the NRA I've seen my share of equipment failures.
Good equipment, inexpensive equipment, it doesn't matter some things are just going to fail. Things are going to slip past quality control checks.
Overall there is a lot of darn fine equipment out there and darn fine isn't always defined by price. Most times an equipment maker will try to make good his bad product, but sometimes they are simply deadheads about a broken piece of equipment and those are indeed bad days. What bothers me most is condemning a whole line of equipment because of one incident or because of the price of the equipment.
Anyway no offense meant Raidman. Sometimes it's also hard for me to say I've had a problem with this or that piece of equipment instead of saying that it was just a piece of Junk.
Good equipment, inexpensive equipment, it doesn't matter some things are just going to fail. Things are going to slip past quality control checks.
Overall there is a lot of darn fine equipment out there and darn fine isn't always defined by price. Most times an equipment maker will try to make good his bad product, but sometimes they are simply deadheads about a broken piece of equipment and those are indeed bad days. What bothers me most is condemning a whole line of equipment because of one incident or because of the price of the equipment.
Anyway no offense meant Raidman. Sometimes it's also hard for me to say I've had a problem with this or that piece of equipment instead of saying that it was just a piece of Junk.