Let's talk about "female invitation" howls.

R Buker

New member
This was brought to mind this time from another poster asking for a link to hear what this howl sounds like. But, I've been pondering it a very long while.

I've hunted a lot of coyotes in a lot of places over a lot of years. I don't claim to be an expert but...

I can't tell the difference between a female howling and a male howling. Can you?

I've been howled at by coyotes with a high voice and when they came in and I killed them it was a large male. And, one night I howled and the coyote that responded to me had a low, gravelly voice. I figured sure as heck it would be a big male. When I killed it, it was a small female. Go figure.

Frankly I think all this male/female howling stuff is a crock of excretement.

What do you think?
 
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How can anyone possibly know for sure that the coyote that howled is the one they killed???



That's exactly what I was thinking, as well. Unless you seen them howling and could track them coming the whole way, there is really know way to know for certain the coyote that came in was in fact the coyote that howled.

I am certainly not argueing that some female coyotes may have a lower voice and some males have a higher voice. You can look at our own species to see that. I am sure it is also true of coyotes, but I generally believe the females do have a bit higher voice and males have a lower voice. Just my two cents.
 
Randy, I'm with you on this subject.
I've done coyotes for over 3 decades and I still can't tell if a female or male is doing the howlin'.
We howled in a cluster of 4 this past week, killed two of them. One was a male. Yep, you guessed it. The other was a female. What kind of a howl did I use? Danged if I know. Just tried to make it sound like a coyote.
I have'nt yet learned how to tell the difference which gender is coming to the call until its killed and rear legs spread.( Some male coyotes don't heist when they pee. Did you know that?).
Blessed are those who are able to know the gender of a responding critter before they kill it. I, for one, hate to kill a wet or pregnant female. Guess thats why I shut down huntin' them about this time of year.
Have a great day and stay warm.
John
 
Randy is spot on. My partner and I frequently do stalks on coyotes that howl but don't come in. One person stays back and keeps them talking while the other puts the sneak on them. We can see who's doing the talking. A high voice does not guarantee a female nor does a deep voice guarantee a male. The same holds true for people. We have a young man at work that is about 6'4" and pushing 300 pounds. His voice is so high and squeaky that you'd think he's a cartoon character. Several times while talking to some one on the phone I called the person sir only to be chastised because I was talking to a woman. Dale
 
"Frankly I think all this male/female howling stuff is a crock of excretement."
I AGREE! I'd throw *estrus chirps* and *female whimpers* in that crock also.


"Blessed are those who are able to know the gender of a responding critter before they kill it."
Yes, blessed they are, and full of that excretement Mr. Buker spoke of.
 
My opion is that the coyote packs knows all the different howls in and around there territory from the ones in there pack and the other packs on the edge of there territory. When we howl they know they have an intruder in the wrong place, so they come to challenge or investigate. I'm with you other guys about female howls vrs. male howls, a howls is a howl.
 
whimpers or estrus chirps?? They both sound just like a coyote when its chasing a rabbit or any game or even another coyote while playing , I have heard and seen this behavior before. Thats what i think brings them in for a look,Thats my take on the subject but i am far from an expert on coyote vocalizations .
 
We may not be able to tell the difference but the coyotes can. Sure if you use the female invite you may get a male or female to respond. Is'nt that what we want?
A female invite is a non-threating howl so coyotes of all age groups will respond. ( Response: Terr., currosity, companian, sex..) I'm not exactly sure of what the female invite means but i've been useing Bill Austins version for 20 years and it works.. If you don't think is does then don't use it....
 
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We may not be able to tell the difference but the coyotes can.




I'm not exactly sure of what the female invite means but i've been useing Bill Austins version for 20 years and it works.. If you don't think is does then don't use it....



If we can't tell the difference between a "female invitation and a male invitation" then how do we know which one we are making?

I believe you that the howl you are using is working but as you said, you really don't know that it's a "female" invitation.

Maybe it's just a stupid name. But, I believe you proved my point.
 
I am no expert by any means. But from my experience with elk a winy estress sound will sometimes break a bull loose that wouldn't come in to anything else.

I don't know that I have ever heard a coyote in estress, but on randy andersons mastering the art he shows how to do a female invitation howl in all different ranges of pitch and pitch doesn't make the howl. It is the duration and when you end the howl (acording to randy).

I have never tried the techniqe. I have enough trouble just howling like a siren, but that doesn't mean that I won't try it in the future and hopefully it will be a different way to try and trick a coyote.

Saying a howl is a howl is a howl, I guess you guys don't use a challange either??? And if you do you don't do it in a pup voice so as not to sound to dominate to the other coyote. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

just my .02 cents
 
Don't really care what gender comes to my calling so I'm not trying to target a particular dog with a particular type of howl. If one gets in range, its going down! As for higher and lower pitched howls, I think using them is a good way to create the illusion that you (the caller) are more than one coyote. Dogs do live by a hierarchy, so the idea of sounding "submissive" certainly holds some merit...

Think in terms of turkeys as a parallel. I'm sure the good turkey hunters out there can tell the difference between a jake's wimpy gobble and an adult tom's booming, rolling gobble. Sure there could be exceptions, but the standard pretty much holds true. And a gobbler's yelp sure don't sound like a hen's yelp to me. So it does make sense that an experienced hunter can tell if a male or female is howling, more times than not...

As above, I also really believe that local coyotes know the voice of every other coyote in their area. They sorta have to, don't ya think???

Therefore, when we, as hunters howl, we represent a "new kid on the block" (intruder) that needs to be identified & handled. So as long as you can replicate a howl that sounds like a living coyote, then you are ahead of the curve and will illicit a response from the local dogs...

Here's my $.02 of how things go down on successful stands where I howled. Not set in stone, but pretty close. Based on a very small handfull of experience...

I howl a "lonely" type of sound
Coyote howls back (sometimes)
If I get an answer, I mimic the answer
I SHUT UP and wait
Coyote comes
I shoot
Coyote dies...


OR

Coyote howls first
I howl back trying to mimic the one I just heard
I SHUT UP and wait
Coyote comes
I shoot
Coyote dies...

If somewhere in that sequence I "invited" one, then I guess you could call that an invitation howl?

I'm sure there are plenty of pros here who have heard firsthand many coyote vocalizations and can catalog & replicate them.

I use what I know works for me in my AO. Howling flat out works...
 
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Quote:
How can anyone possibly know for sure that the coyote that howled is the one they killed???



That's exactly what I was thinking, as well. Unless you seen them howling and could track them coming the whole way



Well, out here where visibility is really good, I have, in fact, seen them howling and watched that same dog come in.

I'm nearly deaf and I don't know that I've ever heard a coyote howl, but I've seen them point their nose at the sky, open their mouth and move their jaw a little, so I assume that's howling or barking or something. I don't have a clue what kind of noise it was making but I have indeed watched that coyote come in.
 
Naturally, that is an exception. Didn't think I needed to preface to that effect...

Randy mentioned that he was night hunting and that is what I was questioning...

You guys are LUCKY to be able to see them coming in from as far as you do!
 
when you are challenge howling back and forth, I have found that the howl in noway needs to be a specific sound, just have the elements of a challenge howl to it, I have switched to other different howlers and done a lot of things when bantering back and forth to a coyote in such a situation, its pretty fun, once a yote is within 400 yd or so, they sound like they are in your lap, this can be pretty unnerving if you don't know where they are.
 
So mabe I read this wrong before, I thought you were arguing wether or not the invitaion howl worked. It sounds like you are arguing wether or not it calls in females every time???

Or are you arguing wether or not it should be called a female invitaion or just an invitaion howl???
 
After reading a few dissertations on coyote howling, I agree that males don't always howl in a lower pitch than females. This was documented using highly advanced sound equipment and captive coyotes within the study. However, this sport of predator hunting is highly commercialized. For this reason, many have keyed catchy phrases to create memory cues with the general predator hunting public. The "female invitation howl" is one of these. I posted in the previous thread on the female invitation howl and made no reference to any scientific information because I felt the poster asking the question wanted knowledge from us in actual hunting experience. I also felt he wanted a simple explanation of how to use the type of howl that's been dubbed the female invitation howl.

After reading peer reviewed journal articles on the subject and listening to and watching coyotes howl both in the field and on video, I believe that the scientists writing the articles have come to a valid conclusion. Coyote howls vary based on emotional intensity and don't necessarily communicate one specific meaning like a word in the English language. The emotion is communicated through the intensity of the howl. This is why the female invitation sounds a lot like a challenge howl and why the challege howl has also been called the threat bark/howl among other things. People are trying to name the different intensities of emotion in howling. Bill Austin says right in his instructional tape that oftentimes a more demanding howl is required to bring coyotes all the way to the gun than the lonesome howl or the interrogation howl. This is why combination calling works so well. You get a coyote to come and investigate a howl and after a few minutes it's basically right on top of the dying rabbit. Why wouldn't it come investigate if it only has to go a short distance?

The female whimper was also mentioned above. Just because Randy Anderson calls it the female whimper doesn't mean males don't do it or pups don't do it. It's a submissive, sometimes playful sound. Bill Martz (don't start a new discussion about him, PLEASE) calls it the coyote submissive sound. I'm not trying to knock Randy Anderson at all. He's constantly saying that coyotes will surprise you, and they're tough to figure out. He's definately an open minded guy.

The main point of all of this is that hunters, all of them not being the Ph.D type (I'm definately not this type), don't always seek to name a sound with a scientifically correct name. It was likely named the female invitation howl due to he fact that it works best during the breeding season. Since it is thought that the male generally approaches the female (the opposite of turkeys) it is likely that the female coyotes make the sound more often than males. That said, I've killed just as many female using the sound as I have males.

The "female invitation howl" is concrete and easier for most to wrap their heads around than "a coyote howl of medium intensity." What in the H-E-double hockey sticks does that mean?

I don't claim to be a coyote expert as I certainly don't have the years of hunting experience that others here have. However, as hunters, most of us don't have the resources available that the Ph.D students did when collectiing data, so I have to give them a lot of credit. Also, remember the sections in these papers that explain statistical significance and sample size. For these reasons I don't accept what they say as gospel. I simply use it as information to help me draw my own conclusions.

I'm all for intelligent discussion, but I think it's disrespectful for someone to call out the pioneers of our sport and say their explanations for certain howls weren't sufficient. After all, they were trying to explain it to hunters, NOT scientists. Why not just start a thread with a scientific explaination that gives others a chance to understand rather than call what someone else has said, "a crock of excretement,"? Maybe there was a logical reason for them to word it the way they did even though they new the explanation wasn't 100% scientifically correct.
 
There are alot of valid points from more knowledgeable experienced hunters then me. I agree with RB. 99% of the time if I howl it is more of a lonesome higher pitched howl. It has worked for me mor than once. The only time I change pitch is if I get a deep challenge howl. Also Steve said it just right. When you start challenging them and your not sure where they are it can get pretty intense.
 


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