Load Development - Priority Ranking

CalCoyote

Member
In your opinion which of the components listed below affects accuracy the most and which affects it the least. Please rank them in order of importance:

Bullet
Brass (brand)
Powder
Primer
Seating Depth

Feel free to add to the list but be sure to rank them in order of importance. Also feel free to add any comments about case prep such as uniform case length, sorting brass by weight, etc.
 
It's a toss up between brass and powder for me to take the #1 position. It depends on if you are buying quality brass, or cheap brass, or used brass. So that is open for interpretation. I spend most of my time prepping brass. So I would put brass at number 1. Then powder as a close second.

Bulllets are third. Seating depth is fourth. And primers are easily last. Tom.
 
CalCoyote
You have them listed in the perfect order.... well no I would move primers to last.
In my experience if the gun doesn't like the bullet no amount of powder swapping will change that.OTOH if it shoots the bullet good it will generally shoot that bullet good with several powders.
Brass while some brands last longer and are more consistent as long as you sort it and pay attention while prepping all will be capable of decent accuracy.
Actually seating depth probably should be ahead of brass. No...Wait...
wink.gif
 
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This is almost an unanswerable question (is that a word?)
Each rifle is going to respond differently to each of these things.
I have some rifles that will shoot well with just about any powder, but are very picky about what bullet.

Another doesn't care alot what bullet, as long as the bullet isn't to heavy/long for the twist, but it's really picky about seating depth.

Some don't seem to respond well to neck sizing, but others work well with it.

But if I were to make a general ranking without breaking things into sub-catagories, it would be.
1.Bullet
2.Powder
3.Seating depth
4.primers
5.Brass Prep.
 
Quote:1.Bullet
2.Powder
3.Seating depth
4.primers
5.Brass Prep....I would stay with the same priority...
Your barrel will dictate the bullet preference with the powder charge right behind it...

Seating depth effects can show up with good groups, both seated near the lands or away from them, I've had both with the same rifle, but magazine length dictated whether I would shoot as single loading or semi-auto loading..

I have two rounds/calibers that the accuracy is really improved if I use Magnum primers over Standard primers...

My brass prep is all kept within the same parameters for consistency, regardless of caliber...While I may use neck sizing for a specific rifle, initially, each piece of brass is prepped the same way...
 
Originally Posted By: biggen0_8

But if I were to make a general ranking without breaking things into sub-catagories, it would be.
1.Bullet
2.Powder
3.Seating depth
4.primers
5.Brass Prep.


+3

I always pick the bullet I wanna shoot (sometimes the rifle disagrees) and then pick the powder that will give me the speed I'm looking for. I also try and stay with the same primer for all my loads so I would move primers to last.
 
This is an awesome question! Made me think a bit.

1. Bullet - because you want to cause the most damage
2. Powder - need the best accuracy, here's where you start
3. Brass prep - uniformity, uniformity, uniformity
4. Seating depth - fine tune accuracy
5. Primers - to add the final "tightening up" of the groups

I'm sure some will disagree, but this has worked for me.
 
As a fairly new reloader, I'm finding this information both fascinating, and overwhelming. I started out with 4 different weight bullets that I liked (mainly because my rifle seemed to like the factory stuff of the same weight), 3 different powders, 3 different cases, and 2 primers. Just doing the quick math here and assuming 5 different loads for each powder/bullet combo, you are looking at about 300 different combinations. YIKES!!! My barrel would be burnt by the time I got through it and after the rebarrel, I'd have to start over. I'm obviously not working through the 300 or so different possibilities, but I have worked through quite a few. Just the targets and notes I have laying around from the past month or so is crazy.

So, if the OP doesn't mind, as a part B to this, what is you alls process for doing this? Do you start with the bullet/powder you like, see how it does, then tweek from there or what?

Also, in the tweek phase, how much of a difference are we talking about? I mean, are we getting a couple tenths off the groups or a couple thousandths?
 
Bullet
powder
case prep
primers and seating depth are distant 4 and 5

Past experience dictates bullet choices, powder has to be suitable for the case and bullet weight. I have favorites. Cases have to be prepped correctly including headspace, trim length and removable of any burrs. I haven't found primers to have that big of an effect on accuracy but I do prefer bench rest primers and use them almost exclusively.
 
So, if the OP doesn't mind, as a part B to this, what is you alls process for doing this? Do you start with the bullet/powder you like, see how it does, then tweek from there or what?

My first consideration when developing a load is, what is it to be used for, and under what conditions. So in hunting loads,the bullet is nearly always my first decision. I consider things such as 1.what type of game 2.distance I will most likely be shooting at such game. 3. most likely conditions.
Then I consider what powder(s)is most likely to work with said bullet. The one time I may consider powder first is if the conditions that I'm going to use this load in, may be extremely cold or hot. Seeing that some powders can be sensitive to temp extremes.

I will then begin to put some rounds together using loads that are suggested in loading manuals, not internet forum boards unless they agree with loading manual specifications. I will usually start somewhere around the middle of the specs.in the manual and will build 10 rounds then jump up a couple of tenths of a grain and build 10 more. I will normally build these rounds with the bullet set at the point where they are only a couple of thousands of an inch off the lands. (this depends on the type of gun) I almost never crimp loads so this allows me to play with some bullet depth at the range, using my lee hand press.

So after putting together 10 rounds with maybe two or three different bullets and a couple of powders I go to the range. There I use my chronogragph to look for consistency in velocity and staple the results to my targets along with notes about pressure signs,fouling and anything else I notice. If I find a load that looks extremely promising with the first 5 rounds I shoot a second group, maybe adjusting the bullet depth and see what that change does.

So at the end of the day I spend the night in front of the T.V looking at my targets and notes and deciding what tweeks to do from there. Usually one of these loads will be promising enough to then put together another 30-40 rounds with some variations in powder charge, bullet seating depth. From that I can normally settle on a satifactory load that I may tweek on with primer choice. Sometimes there are a couple of my initial loads that show promise. And sometimes you go clear back to the starting board. That's one of the things when you start with a new rifle and caliber and can't get it to shoot well. You don't know if it's the load or the gun.


Also, in the tweek phase, how much of a difference are we talking about? I mean, are we getting a couple tenths off the groups or a couple thousandths?

In the tweek phase you sometimes get surprised, a primer change or a tenth of a grain or a few thousandths one way or another on bullet depth, can make a group explode or shrink. On my hunting rifles that I don't anticapate using at more than 200-300 yards I don't go looking for thousandsths of an inch. However I have a couple of hunting rifles that I drag out when I run into the occasional wise dog that won't come inside of that range, those guns I will get pretty anal with, same goes with my paper shooting guns.

I have a 6mm Rem.that is one of my go to coyote guns, nothing fancy just a plain Jane 700 BDL that I've had for nearly 20 years. I will still cook up some new loads from time to time,just to see what might happen. It drives my buddy nuts, he just cares if it goes boom and hits the gong.

I know I probably went into much more detail than you wanted, sorry about that. Apologies to the OP didn't mean to hijack your thread.
 
Like you, I have to make a decision on the bullet and it's purpose/result...

I have three basic powders that I use and will choose one depending on bullet weight and barrel length.. I want the burn rate to match the barrel length as much as possible and still give me a nominal amount of velocity...

I generally have a factory round in the caliber with a similar bullet weight and design and will set my initial seating die to that length...

I'll make ten rounds of each powder charge, in .1gr, or .2gr increments, starting a full grain below published max and seat the bullets to the factory length to start...then it's to the range for testing...If out of the batch I get a reasonably good group of five, I'll use the other five for verification...The rest go back to the bench for additional tweaking with the same powder charge as the one that gave me the better group, but with seating differences.

If my magazine will hold and overall length of 2.26" and the initial factory round was 2.25", I'll work in .002" increments on either side of the better group..If they still are not providing what is acceptable to me, I'll change primers and go again...Eventually, I will find the 'perfect' load for a specific rifle...
 
Originally Posted By: biggen0_8

I know I probably went into much more detail than you wanted, sorry about that. Apologies to the OP didn't mean to hijack your thread.


Actually this is the direction I was wanting this thread to go. That is why I said in my opening post to "feel free to add your comments".

My frustrations is: I have actually reloaded for only about 9 months, but I had been rigorously studying it for two years before I started. Yes. I have a pretty decent working knowledge of the reloading process BUT I am still doing some stuff VERY wrong. I get so frustrated when 3-4 shots of a 5 shot group are touching, but the other 1-2 shots are flyers that turn a sub half-inch group into a 1.25 inch group.

My other frustration is I will go to the shooting range and shoot a FABOULUS group with a particular bullet/powder combination and then go back the next week with some fresh ammo loaded to exact same specs but I can not repeat the results from the previous week.
 
Originally Posted By: CalCoyote

Actually this is the direction I was wanting this thread to go. That is why I said in my opening post to "feel free to add your comments".

My frustrations is: I have actually reloaded for only about 9 months, but I had been rigorously studying it for two years before I started. Yes. I have a pretty decent working knowledge of the reloading process BUT I am still doing some stuff VERY wrong. I get so frustrated when 3-4 shots of a 5 shot group are touching, but the other 1-2 shots are flyers that turn a sub half-inch group into a 1.25 inch group.

My other frustration is I will go to the shooting range and shoot a FABOULUS group with a particular bullet/powder combination and then go back the next week with some fresh ammo loaded to exact same specs but I can not repeat the results from the previous week.

I'm feelin' ya on that one. I've taken to be much more careful/diligent with my brass. I don't know how much of a difference it might make, but that is the thing that wasn't a constant, so I'm trying to make it as constant as I can.
 
Quote:I get so frustrated when 3-4 shots of a 5 shot group are touching, but the other 1-2 shots are flyturn a sub half-inch group into a 1.25 inch group. ...I've found that when it happens to me, it's due to my having a 'mental slippage' by looking at the group and losing my sight picture/cheek weld....

I'm much better off to ignore the quality of any group and concentrate on keeping my position exactly the same during the five shots...
Quote:I will go to the shooting range and shoot a FABOULUS group with a particular bullet/powder combination and then go back the next week with some fresh ammo loaded to exact same specs..I don't know about your particular area, but at the range I normally shoot, any small breeze can play havoc with groups and that is why I will build ten rounds of each loading and use the second five for verification of any good group that I find...

One of our members, that is pretty much an expert in precision bench shooting, popped some smoke grenades as a learning item at various ranges and to watch the very slight breeze that was present roll across the shooting lanes was very educational...It's almost better to evaluate loads in the early morning or late evening when any wind/breeze is less likely to be present...
 


Sometimes all problems aren't ammo. Gun,scope,rest,how you "ride"the recoil,weather conditions, clean barrel groups vs.dirty barrel. These are just a few of our favorite things, that we get to contend with in the search for the magical load.
 
Originally Posted By: HereticThis is an awesome question! Made me think a bit.

1. Bullet - because you want to cause the most damage
2. Powder - need the best accuracy, here's where you start
3. Brass prep - uniformity, uniformity, uniformity
4. Seating depth - fine tune accuracy
5. Primers - to add the final "tightening up" of the groups

I'm sure some will disagree, but this has worked for me.

YEP!
 
When someone figures what to look for when you have a good group and then a few of the so called fliers which ruin the group let me know I have been scratching my head for a while on what to look for that I may be doing wrong.

And dont tell me its the dummy behind the gun because I am not DUMB---LOL
 


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