M 4 Accuracy

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PaPa 260

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A friend of mine has a Colt M4 that he was doing some accuracy testing on yesterday at my house. The rifle is well maintained and was clean with about 450 rounds down the tube. He tried several different loads with the 69 gr. MK using Varget and N540, several different loads using a 50 gr. BlitzKing and N135, and several loads with the 50 gr. B.T. and H335. Nothing shoot good, and the smallest group was with 25.3 gr. N135 and it measured 1.787". Most groups were in the 2" to 2 1/2" range. All groups were 5 shot groups @ 100 yards off a solid bench. Is this normal accuracy for an M4? It does not have a float tube. He was shooting of a bipod with a rear sand bag.

He was disappointed to say the least. Any information would be appreicated.

PaPa 260
 
If it's not free floated, the pressure from the bipod will affect accuracy. In the book "Green Eyes and Black Rifles" the author says he can move the point of impact as much as 4" just from the pressure of a sling mounted to the sight base on a non free floated barrel. Free floating should help some, but since it's a Colt it is probably chrome lined which will hurt accuracy too.
 
I had a 14.5" barreled M4 (non-Colt) that I never could get to group less that 1-1/2" @ 100yds and wound up selling it...Most groups were in the 3-4" range..

I was told at the time, that it was an acceptable group for that style rifle... At the same time, I had (and still have) a 16" DPMS that will keep up with the two custom builds that I had, so I couldn't accept the statement about the M4...

I never found out if my M4 had a chrome lined barrel or not...but that could have been a factor as my other two 16" barrels are stainless and shoot great..
 
Scope or irons? How was the trigger? Colt M4 ain't no RR,IMHO, but should be able to do better. Bipods can be problematic in returning to battery...real shooters, which I am not, frequently use the wax-paper like car dealer floor mats to aid return to battery..especially on rough benches..wood or concrete. Might suggest that he lose the bipod just for grins and see what happens.

Let us know how it goes.
 
Cannot use bipod without free float tube, can use sand bags, that will work well,-----sand bags give, solid rest make gun jump--
 
I would say that 2in groups at 100 yards is perfectly acceptable for a BATTLE weapon. My Mosin shoots 3-4 in groups at the same distance. The rifle is what it is.
 
Iron sights, 2" group would be fantastic.. Especially now that my eyes getting older... As many have stated above, there are many reasons for this size group.. Which to me still is not bad for somthing you shoot on the move.


Good luck..
 
I wouldn't expect any better accuracy than that out of an M4, no matter what optics you put on it. If he's not good with that, he could put on a good quality stainless barrel and free-float it and most likely get one inch groups (or less).
The "acceptable " accuracy level for a mil-spec M4 is around 3 MOA.
 
I appreciate the responses. Today he shot it off sand bags, front rest, and the bipod. Actually the best group came off of a bipod again with the same load that shot the best yesterday. I didn't measure the group but it was about the same as yesterday. He has a 3.5 X 15 Night Force on it in a Night Force mount so the optics and mount are top shelf. I guess that is as good as it is going to get with that rifle. Like stated above, he can always upgrade to a better barrel with a float tube. Thanks again!

Papa 260
 
I have several AR's right now and have owned many different ones in the past. I have AR's that shoot 1/2" moa's but when you are talking Iron sights you are not going to get 1/2" moa's. One of the most accurate shooting AR's I had using IRON sights was a Clone version of the Colt AR 15. I think the best groups I ever shot with it was no smaller than 2 1/5 " @ 100 yards. For Iron sights this was great. I killed many coyotes with it and knew if I had the sight on the animal it was dead when I pulled the trigger. I could out shoot other AR owners even if they used scoped AR's It was just a good shootin Rifle. then the Clinton scare came along and I traded it off for a Colt brand AR15. I took the colt out shooting the same loads in it and could not shoot a group better than 4" with several flyers. I never could get it to shoot good. I sold it and got a bushmaster AR. I scoped the bushy and like the 1/2" moa so continued to shoot Scopes. This year I traded for a Smith and wesson M&P M4. Now it is a very accurate shooting M4 version AR. with Iron sights. I love it.

My findings are that different guns just shoot better than others and when you throw in different factors like bullet weights and loads, Iron sights versus Scopes and Etc. Some will in my term " JUST WORK". I never had very good results with Colt brands when using Iron sights.
 
If my [beeep] scanner was working with the computer I'd scan some targets in from the weekend. I was out load testing and I have a couple of 5 shot groups at just under 1/2" I have some 200 yard shots with my first batch of reloads at about
1 1/2 inches. I also got yelled at for shooting too fast and emptied a 30 round clip in under 45 seconds at 100 and they stayed in about a 4" group. That's a Rock River Arms Predator Pursuit in a 16". Overall that's as good or better than all of my bolt actions! I was using a Lead Sled Solo.
 
That's not too encouraging about the Colts, I just purchased a BCM 16" Stainless Midlength upper and BCM M4 lower. According to another website the BCM is supposed to be the "bee's knees" in M4's and is equated with the Colt...

I've only had it to the range twice, shooting cheap factory FMJ's with a cheap 6MOA Red Dot at 50 yards. I'm running 5-10 shoot groups about 1.5" with numerous rounds making one tiny hole...this was with Fiocchi 62 grain FMJ's so I hope it's encouraging. Precision with the RD is impossible for me anyways.

The trigger is one of the worst I've experienced in 50 years of shooting, but I intent to get that cleaned up. In the meantime I have a LaRue 139 mount on the way and plan on trying it out with a Leupold 3x9 or 4.5x14 and try out some different loads.

I guess the Colt's might be praised for always going bang and not so much for accuracy? 4 MOA????
 
Quote:I guess the Colt's might be praised for always going bang and not so much for accuracy?

They vary a lot. I've seen Colts with pencil barrels that shot MOA (or close to it), too. The M4 isn't designed as a precision shooter, it's acceptable if you can hit a man-sized target at 300 yards consistently. Some of them do a lot better than that, some of them barely do it.
To say none of them shoot well is an overstatement, though.
If I was buying an off-the-shelf AR, though, and wanted good accuracy, Colt would be near the bottom of the list.
 


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