Making some 3" 12 ga waterfowl loads into 3" coyote loads.

derbyacresbob

derbyacresbob

Well-known member
I just ordered 5 Kilos of TSS #4 shot to make me some 3" 12 ga 1-1/2 oz loads for shooting coyotes.

Many years ago when I found out that almost all of my 3" 12 ga 1-1/2 oz loads of HW13 and Rem HD shot using BPI data was way over pressure, with 35 gr of Steel powder. I removed the shot and put more felt cushion wads in the shell and went back in with just 1-1/4 oz of shot and re-crimped them, and that lowered the pressure down about 3,000 psi.

Yesterday I opened up the crimps on 108 shells and removed the 1-1/4 oz of 12g/cc shot form them. When I get the TSS #4 shot I will put 1-1/2 oz of it and some more cushion wads under the shot back into these hulls to get the stack height correct and then re-crimp them.

Quite a while back I had some 3" 1-1/2 oz loads with 1-1/2 oz of 15g/cc #2 shot loads with 32 gr of Steel powder tested and with the much shorter shot column and more soft cushion wads under the 15g/cc shot the pressure was around 10,500 psi.

Since I shot hundreds of the BPI 3" 1-1/2 oz 12g/cc loads with 35 gr of Steel powder in my 3" shotguns that were way over pressure before I had them tested. I am confident that these 1-1/2 oz TSS loads with the much shorter shot columns with more cushion wads under the shot will be under the 14,000 MAX PSI of the 3-1/2 gun I will be shooting them through.

I can't legally shoot lead shot at coyotes I choose to use 12g/cc, 15g/cc and 18g/cc shot at coyotes. I have used TSS #2, #3 and #4 shot on coyotes and have come to the conclusion that TSS #2 and #3 shot are not needed for our 35 pound and smaller coyotes. The TSS #4 shot 1-1/2 oz loads will have just over 120 pellets per shell. Just over 120 pellets per shell is a very high pellet count for coyotes.
 
Greywalker said:
Just curious, would you stick with the TSS loads if you could go back to lead?
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Yes, I think I would. The smaller and much harder TSS shot has way more pellets per shell and breaks bones way more often and it patterns much tighter. I use a Modified choke and get a denser pattern than I ever got with lead BB shot loads. I never did like lead number 4 Buck loads with 1-7/8 oz of shot that kick harder and only have 41 pellets per shell.

If I was going to shoot lead shot at coyotes I would buy the lead BBB or lead T shot that BPI Reloading sells and use it because it gets way more penetration than lead BB shot and has many more pellets per shell than lead Number 4 buck has.

It is to bad that the ammo manufacturers don't make some lead BBB and lead T shot loads for coyote hunters.

Even the 12g/cc BB shot out performs lead shot or lead Number 4 buck by a long ways, 1-1/2 oz of 12g/cc BB shot has about 29 more pellets per shell than 1-7/8 oz of lead umber 4 Buck has per shell.

Look below at how some of these shot types and sizes compare to each other in KPY Shotshell Ballistics. For the 35 pound and smaller coyotes that I shoot I want to have 3.70" of 20% gel penetration to reliably break down or kill coyotes.

1300 fps lead BB shot has about 77 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 46.1 yards.
1300 fps lead BBB shot has about 65 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 56.8 yards.
1300 fps lead T shot has about 56 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 66 yards.
1300 fps 12g/cc BB shot has about 70 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards.
1300 fps TSS #4 shot has about 124 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 79 yards.
1300 fps TSS #3 shot has about 100 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 96.9 yards.
1250 fps lead Number 4 buck has about 41 pellets in 1-7/8 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 105.6 yards.
 
Thats some good info there. The next round of coyote loads I make, ill have to look into TSS. I dont carry a shotgun much but when i do i have 1 7/8 oz F. I believe its 62 pellets. Knocks the crud out of them past what I think is shotgun range.
 
I haven’t messed with anything bigger than #5 lead. I do a lot of upland hunting with older SXS’s. One thing I found was penetration was greatly reduced anytime you started deforming pellets. Either that was from to heavy of a load or pushing velocity to hard. I found I could get an ounce of nickel plated #8’s at 1200 fps out of a 16ga to out penetrate #5’s and #6’s lead uncoated running around 1300 fps. On birds the “feather pull” from knurled edges/ridges on pellet kills penetration.

Do you typically see the lead shot deform on your tests? Especially knurled edges. It shouldn’t effect penetration on gel as much but when it’s grabbing fur on its way in I could see penetration get reduced by quite a bit. TSS being extremely had shouldn’t have that issue. So I see it as preforming even better that regular lead than just the gel test would show.

I just wish that TSS stuff wasn’t SO ridiculously expensive. $45-50/pound of TSS defiantly isn’t as easy as $6/pound of nickel plated lead.
 
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In my experience, "T" shot is a miracle worker. I've killed coyotes, fox, and bunches of geese with it. If you can find it for a decent price it would be worth trying to find a load that patterned like you want.
 
The TSS #4 shot I just ordered was $38.00 per pound including shipping by ordering 5 Kilos.

TSS shot is around 56% denser than lead and it is very hard and perfectly round. So it patterns tight and penetrates really deep.

Steel shot is by far the worst performing shot ever made. There is no way I would shoot it at coyotes.
 
I still have have a good dozen boxes of 25 count federal classic 1 7/8oz BB. I've dropped coyotes out to 65 yards with it. The old Remington HD Bb,BbB, and T I have a few of each left. I dropped a coyote at 109 yards with that stuff in HD BB once because I didn't know it was that far away or I would have never shot.
 
derbyacresbob said:
Yes, I think I would. The smaller and much harder TSS shot has way more pellets per shell and breaks bones way more often and it patterns much tighter. I use a Modified choke and get a denser pattern than I ever got with lead BB shot loads. I never did like lead number 4 Buck loads with 1-7/8 oz of shot that kick harder and only have 41 pellets per shell.

If I was going to shoot lead shot at coyotes I would buy the lead BBB or lead T shot that BPI Reloading sells and use it because it gets way more penetration than lead BB shot and has many more pellets per shell than lead Number 4 buck has.

It is to bad that the ammo manufacturers don't make some lead BBB and lead T shot loads for coyote hunters.

Even the 12g/cc BB shot out performs lead shot or lead Number 4 buck by a long ways, 1-1/2 oz of 12g/cc BB shot has about 29 more pellets per shell than 1-7/8 oz of lead umber 4 Buck has per shell.

Look below at how some of these shot types and sizes compare to each other in KPY Shotshell Ballistics. For the 35 pound and smaller coyotes that I shoot I want to have 3.70" of 20% gel penetration to reliably break down or kill coyotes.

1300 fps lead BB shot has about 77 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 46.1 yards.
1300 fps lead BBB shot has about 65 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 56.8 yards.
1300 fps lead T shot has about 56 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 66 yards.
1300 fps 12g/cc BB shot has about 70 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards.
1300 fps TSS #4 shot has about 124 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 79 yards.
1300 fps TSS #3 shot has about 100 pellets in 1-1/2 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 96.9 yards.
1250 fps lead Number 4 buck has about 41 pellets in 1-7/8 oz and gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 105.6 yards.
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+1 I can use lead buckshot and will never use it in my shotgun loads for the reasons stated.
 
I used the 3” Hornady BB loads for I dunno how long, it was all I’ve ever shot. I became friends with the guys at Salt Creek Ammo, and they loaded me some #2 TSS in 3” Chamber to try out before they dropped their Predator series loads. I’ll never shoot anything else, these #2 and #4s are the real deal. It’s unlike anything I’ve ever seen. Much more density, and much more range. I can comfortably, run my shotgun on stands at the 50-65 yard range, and that’s with a rangefinder. Unlike anything I’ve ever seen.
 
I bought a bunch of 12 gauge 3” Hornady BB loads too. I don’t think I’ve ever shot them. Did load test a few if I remember. They didn’t pattern as well as the 1 7/8oz classic lead BB loads. Bought a bunch of boxes when they first came out and added them to my stash.
 
I got my TSS order of 5 kilos and it ended up being #5 shot not #4 shot. I am looking forward to trying it out on coyotes. The TSS #5 shot pellet count is very high for a coyote load and yet it still shows lots of penetration in KPY Shotshell Ballistics.
I just ran some loads through KPY Shotshell Ballistics and found two shot sizes and types that match each other on down range speed and penetration. This is only the second time I have found two different shot types and sizes that match each other down range on speed and penetration.
The two matching shot sizes and types are18g/cc TSS #7 shot and 12g/cc Rem HD #2 shot, and 18g/cc TSS #5 shot and 12g/cc Rem HD BB shot.
Look below at how the 18g/cc #5 shot compares to 12g/cc Rem HD BB shot in KPY Shotshell Ballistics.
1300 fps 12g/cc Rem HD BB shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards with about 70 pellets per shell.

1300 fps 18g/cc TSS #5 shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards with about 158 pellets per shell.

The TSS 1-1/2 oz #5 shot load with 88 more pellets per shell in the 1-1/2 oz 12g/cc BB load should be devastating on coyotes at 55 yards and less.
 
"Steel shot is by far the worst performing shot ever made".

Way back when Hevi-Shot came out, in the early 2000's, I bought #4's, the 12gr Per cc stuff. While out duck hunting, a coyote pops out of the sage about 50yds out, and my son takes a shot (1 1/8oz #4 HS). The coyote drops, gets up and he shoots again, the coyote dropped and slowly got up, turns and walks away from us. My buddy then shoots 3 times using BB steel, with almost no reaction from the coyote.

When we got to the coyote, I could feel pellets under the hide on the opposite side of my sons shots, while the BB steel was felt just under the skin around the hips and butt area.

The 12gr per cc was impressive. and we now have TSS in 5's (geese and coyotes) and 7's loaded for this year.
 


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