Model 12 Winchester??

M

msinc

New member
Anyone out there ever actually fire a Model 12 personally yourself??? Seems like there is not too many guys left that know alot about these. I have one that seems to blow itself open when I fire it... I can close it on a factory light load target shell and shoot from the hip with just my trigger hand on the gun and it will open, push the slide all the way back and eject just like an autoloader. Same thing happens if I try to hold the slide shut. It doesn't appear to have much wear on any of the parts. This does'nt seem right but when I ask local guys about as many say "yeah" as say "no, that aint right." The old trick of reaching in and pushing up on the carrier does'nt move the bolt up much for what that's worth. Please dont be offended by my next statement...Please spare me the safety speeches, the ones about the slam fire feature{already know all about it} and I can take a guess at this myself, I need something definative not guesses or "my 870/37/500 dont do that." I know this is not correct for other pump guns but alot of guys say the Model 12 is different. Does my gun have a problem or not??? If it does, what is the usual culprit?? Thanks in advance and good shooting.
 
My dad has the model 12 in a 20 gage that my brother and I would shoot quail and pheasants with. When my brother carried it he could shoot it quicker that I could shoot an 1100 Rem. When I asked him how he did it, he just said that he never took he finger off the trigger and just started pumping it. That was 25 years ago.

My dad still has it and it is very common in the model 12. I have shot several other model 12s and all of them did it too.

But, I never had a problem with the action coming open after firing the round unless it was actually pumped open.
 
Thanks, that is the so called "slam fire" feature you are describing with the trigger, all model 12's have it. The Ithaca Model 37 does it as well. Hold in the trigger and pump and it fires, which is really not a slam fire {as in M-14/M-1 just what everyone calls it.} Neither gun had a disconnector. Both guns also must have the forend pushed forward a little to unlock the bolt. But that kind of automatically happens under recoil if/when you fire it, so unless you just wanted to unload it you might not realize they had that feature.
 
I have a Win model 12, and if I fire it pointing upward, with just a slight hold on the pump, the action open and the pump come back about half to 3/4 the way, if I fire it level, it just open the action about an inch.
But if I hold the pump firmly, it won't go back.

I remember an ad in these days from Winchester saying the win mod 12 could be shot as fast as an autoloader because of the 'auto bolt release' feature of the model 12.
I'd say your mod 12 is fine, maybe a little wear because the pump always come back fully, but it isn't broke, but that's my opinion and I'm not one of those experts.
 
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Msinc

Model 12's are designed so that when you fire, the recoil forces you to pull forward on the forend. This action releases the bolt to allow another cartridge to be chambered. Through millions of rounds this function becomes degraded. There is a spring steel clip that fits between the forend tube and the magazine tube that maintains tension on the forend and prevents what you are talking about. That clip could be worn or missing.

I actually removed the one on my model 12 so when I pushed the bolt release on mine, it actually falls open. I don't believe what you described is a safety issue, as mine has been doing this for about 45 years and is still going strong.

as you know, the model 12 will fire when you slam the bolt closed with the trigger pulled. But should not fire unless the trigger is depressed when the bolt is closed.

You may or may not know you can adjust the head space on model 12's as well. If you close the bolt and hold the gun by the pistol grip and shake it and the barell moves noticeably, it need to be adjusted.

Hope that is a help

Dave
 
If I am not mistaken the Model 12's did not have a true disconnector (not in modern terms anyways) in them, allowing breech block or bolt to jump open when fired. It is normal for a model 12 to do this.
 
Our 'riot' guns on the KCMOPD back in the early '60s were model 12s and we could hold the trigger back and continually rack the slide and they would fire every time....

I don't remember them coming out of battery following a single shot though, but they were very easy to pump..You could re-chamber a round one handed with very little effort.
 
Have a 20ga back at my dad's with a cutts comp. on it. Was a great skeet and bird gun until the tang that pushes the next round up into the chamber from the magazine got a little week. When it was cold out it would start dumping full shells on the ground at your feet. Sure wish I could find a gunsmith that could fix it. Would love to let the kids use that great old gun. It was the first gun I hunted with.
 
Yes, I grew up with them and would pretty much agree with all the posters. I still have one in 16ga. and so does my dad. Dad could definitely shoot his faster than any auto.
 
Are you pulling the gun back into your shoulder Thefirmly with the forward hand? If so, the gun will open because it automatically unlocks the bolt on recoil and the applied tension of your forward hand pulls the slide back. Support the barrel on something and fire the weapon without your hand on the slide and see if it opens.

The 12 ga I got from my grandfather was purchased used in 1927 - it still works great

Good Luck and Good Shooting with a fine old gun!
 
I have two model 12s; a 12 guage and a 20. In my opinion, they represent the best pump shotguns ever made. They are solid built. Both of mine are real shooters. I only wish they have vent ribs.

I've never had any problems with either of them, and they do shoot fast. My nephew has a 16 ga. in one and it too is a good one.

Here is the 20 guage one. It's one great little squirrel getter.

12-1.jpg


12-2.jpg


12-3.jpg
 
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You just gotta love the ole model 12. I wish mine looked as good as yours 6mm. My model 12 16 guage was my first shotgun. I still have it but it doesn't see much field time. I don't recall it ever opening up after firing.

Here's a scary one for you. When I was probably 14 or so, I shot about a half of a box of 20 guage shells through it. You wouldn't think they would fire but they did. Nothing happened and I didn't even notice until one didn't extract. Just a dumb kid making a dumb mistake.
 
Like many said above the slightest pull on the forearm and the eject the shell and are ready to close the slide. my 16 is also all but retired but every once in a while it will see action on a family bird hunt, it belonged to my father and hopefully will never leave the family
 
I am still confused...about as many guys here say it should as those that say it shouldn't. Thanks again for all the post and info. I recently bought a DVD from "American Gunsmith Institute" where the famous gunsmith Bob Dunlap goes over the entire gun...cleaning, dissassembly, reassembly, adjustments, repairs and even function but he never utters a word about whether or not it's normal to blow open when fired. Mousedipper, you are wrong about how to adjust headspace. What you are describing tightens the barrel to the receiver. The gun has a separate part in the receiver called a chamber ring. This part is what adjusts/sets headspace but it should never be disturbed because then you have to align the ring and the barrel with a special reamer. Co chuck read my post again, I wrote in it that I can fire it from the hip with just my trigger hand on the gun and it still blows open. I had the same idea you had...made sense to check it that way to me too. Quarter round you said "I pretty much agree with everyone else"...you mean the ones that say yes it should or the ones that say no it shouldn't??? St animals...no slight pull, no pull at all, no hand even on the forend and it blows open completely and ejects just like an autoloader. Not tryin to be a jacka$$ fellas just want to be clear. If I ever get this figured out for certain I promise to do a follow up post. Thanks again guys.
 
Lots of Model 12s around the USA at trap & skeet clubs.
Ive shot them....just like my Ithaca 37 a few of them would fire if I kept my finger on the trigger.
 
I've never had either of my model 12s eject as you described, msinc, and my nephew's model 12 doesn't do that either. I've shot other model 12s over the years and none of them did that either. I'm thinking that perhaps the problem might be with your partucular gun. But, if others are having the same problems, then it would tend to show something to the nature of the gun itself. But, as I say, I haven't experienced that problem with mine, nor any of the others I have shot over the years.

Duckdog, that little 20 guage was in a gun collection that a guy had for a number of years. He bought the gun used, put it in a collection and never shot it. It's near mint condition, and I just had good fortune to acquire it from him.

There's something nostalgic about hunting with a model 12, and I use the little gun for squirrel hunting sometimes. It brings them out of the tops of some pretty tall trees.
 
I inherited my fathers model 12 12ga. when he passed in 87.
I haven't shot it ina couple of years, but if memory serves, to eject an unfired round I had to push forward then back to get the breech to open. If it was fired it would open smmoth as butter. I don't recall it coming open a people are describing. I also have the model 1200. I honestly have to say this shotgun is every bit as good as the model 12. I've shot thousands of clays and hundreds of birds with the 1200.

RTLOF
 
I had one years ago that you could just work the pump by holding the trigger but never flew open like that.Mine was very worn and the only problem it had was it use to jam closed after firing.
 


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