moly coated bullets?
- Thread starter kaizer
- Start date
dtech
New member
I have shot countless moly-coated bullets for years. You are going to find many that hate moly and won't use it, and plenty that swear by them.
The use of moly coated bullets is probably the best single item I have ever seen to conjure-up old wives tales. "Moly-coated bullets will corrode your bore" Not true. Molybdenum disulphide, the powder used to coat the bullets, is itself inert. It doesn't react with or attack anything. It does attract moisture however, and if you have a chrome-moly barrel you should run a Kroil patch through the bore, prior to storage.
"Once you shoot moly-coated bullet, you can't get it out of the barrel" Wrong. Any ammonia-based cleaning solvent will quickly remove the moly from the barrel.
There are more, but this "dead horse" has been beaten enough.
If you don't shoot extremely long range, or quite high volume, shooting moly-coated bullets probably won't be any advantage to you. Moly coated bullets will increase the BC of your bullet ever so slightly giving you a little advantage at extreme long range. The correct use of moly-coated bullets, in a well seasoned barrel, can greatly extend the amount of shooting you can do before accuracy falls off due to fouling. This is the only reason I use moly, and it works very well for that.
The use of moly coated bullets is probably the best single item I have ever seen to conjure-up old wives tales. "Moly-coated bullets will corrode your bore" Not true. Molybdenum disulphide, the powder used to coat the bullets, is itself inert. It doesn't react with or attack anything. It does attract moisture however, and if you have a chrome-moly barrel you should run a Kroil patch through the bore, prior to storage.
"Once you shoot moly-coated bullet, you can't get it out of the barrel" Wrong. Any ammonia-based cleaning solvent will quickly remove the moly from the barrel.
There are more, but this "dead horse" has been beaten enough.
If you don't shoot extremely long range, or quite high volume, shooting moly-coated bullets probably won't be any advantage to you. Moly coated bullets will increase the BC of your bullet ever so slightly giving you a little advantage at extreme long range. The correct use of moly-coated bullets, in a well seasoned barrel, can greatly extend the amount of shooting you can do before accuracy falls off due to fouling. This is the only reason I use moly, and it works very well for that.
varmentwacker
New member
Quote:
I have shot countless moly-coated bullets for years. You are going to find many that hate moly and won't use it, and plenty that swear by them.
The use of moly coated bullets is probably the best single item I have ever seen to conjure-up old wives tales. "Moly-coated bullets will corrode your bore" Not true. Molybdenum disulphide, the powder used to coat the bullets, is itself inert. It doesn't react with or attack anything. It does attract moisture however, and if you have a chrome-moly barrel you should run a Kroil patch through the bore, prior to storage.
"Once you shoot moly-coated bullet, you can't get it out of the barrel" Wrong. Any ammonia-based cleaning solvent will quickly remove the moly from the barrel.
There are more, but this "dead horse" has been beaten enough.
If you don't shoot extremely long range, or quite high volume, shooting moly-coated bullets probably won't be any advantage to you. Moly coated bullets will increase the BC of your bullet ever so slightly giving you a little advantage at extreme long range. The correct use of moly-coated bullets, in a well seasoned barrel, can greatly extend the amount of shooting you can do before accuracy falls off due to fouling. This is the only reason I use moly, and it works very well for that.
+1
I have shot countless moly-coated bullets for years. You are going to find many that hate moly and won't use it, and plenty that swear by them.
The use of moly coated bullets is probably the best single item I have ever seen to conjure-up old wives tales. "Moly-coated bullets will corrode your bore" Not true. Molybdenum disulphide, the powder used to coat the bullets, is itself inert. It doesn't react with or attack anything. It does attract moisture however, and if you have a chrome-moly barrel you should run a Kroil patch through the bore, prior to storage.
"Once you shoot moly-coated bullet, you can't get it out of the barrel" Wrong. Any ammonia-based cleaning solvent will quickly remove the moly from the barrel.
There are more, but this "dead horse" has been beaten enough.
If you don't shoot extremely long range, or quite high volume, shooting moly-coated bullets probably won't be any advantage to you. Moly coated bullets will increase the BC of your bullet ever so slightly giving you a little advantage at extreme long range. The correct use of moly-coated bullets, in a well seasoned barrel, can greatly extend the amount of shooting you can do before accuracy falls off due to fouling. This is the only reason I use moly, and it works very well for that.
+1
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
"Moly isn't corrosive itself but attracts moisture"
This is not exactly true. Moly does not attract moisture. But under the temperature and pressure of firing some of the moly will break down and oxidize to form SO2. SO2 attracts moisture. Water and SO2 form suphurous acid which is corrosive. It leaves a very distinctive looking corrosion that looks a lot like filiform corrosion through a borescope.
Jack
This is not exactly true. Moly does not attract moisture. But under the temperature and pressure of firing some of the moly will break down and oxidize to form SO2. SO2 attracts moisture. Water and SO2 form suphurous acid which is corrosive. It leaves a very distinctive looking corrosion that looks a lot like filiform corrosion through a borescope.
Jack
knockemdown
New member
Is it true that when using moly bullets, one can expect lower chamber pressures due to less friction thereby allowing for higher powder charge and conversely higher MV?
And if so, is there a guideline to follow that compensates for this phenomenon in common reloading recipes?
And if so, is there a guideline to follow that compensates for this phenomenon in common reloading recipes?
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
Quote:
Jack, I would like to see your source of that information.
My borescope and a former life as a chemical engineer.
Jack
Jack, I would like to see your source of that information.
My borescope and a former life as a chemical engineer.
Jack
speedkills
New member
I shoot moly, but only in my PDog guns!
Like Mike said before! Kroil it, if that is your only care after a shoot. I actually CLEAN mine once in awhile!
It will live!
Speaking of borescopes JR, my .243 action would be proud to get a new tube. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Like Mike said before! Kroil it, if that is your only care after a shoot. I actually CLEAN mine once in awhile!
It will live!
Speaking of borescopes JR, my .243 action would be proud to get a new tube. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Some swear by it, some swear at it. The only rifle I have shot them extensively in is my Swift, It has a S/S barrel and has well over 3000 rounds through it. Viewed under a borescope, it has typical throat errosion for that many rounds when fired at excess 0f 3800 FPS. No abnormal pitting. I clean it with kroil and have no problem doing so. A standard cleaning is typical of any other firearm I own. I have gone over 200 rounds on PD shoots and still held the accuracy I would expect.
Pressures. It will take more powder to achieve the same velocities as non moly coated bullets.
I tried them in my 17 and got peirced primers after about 50 rounds. Same with non moly bullets. The moly did not extend my shooting time in the 17. I run my 17 in excess of 4000 fps.
Coke or Pepsi?
Pressures. It will take more powder to achieve the same velocities as non moly coated bullets.
I tried them in my 17 and got peirced primers after about 50 rounds. Same with non moly bullets. The moly did not extend my shooting time in the 17. I run my 17 in excess of 4000 fps.
Coke or Pepsi?
dtech
New member
Quote:
"Moly isn't corrosive itself but attracts moisture"
This is not exactly true. Moly does not attract moisture. But under the temperature and pressure of firing some of the moly will break down and oxidize to form SO2. SO2 attracts moisture. Water and SO2 form suphurous acid which is corrosive. It leaves a very distinctive looking corrosion that looks a lot like filiform corrosion through a borescope.
Jack
Jack, for what it's worth, I just got off of the phone with the folks at NECO.
1) They said molybdenum disulphide does attract moisture (a very mild desiccant)
2) Molybdenum disulphide does NOT break down, under pressure or heat, to a corrosive substance. They were very aware of what people are seeing in their bores. They said that material left in the bore from shooting, primarily salts from the primmer, coupled with moisture attracted from the moly, is where this comes from.
They said, what I have been saying about cleaning: When your done shooting, run a Kroil soaked patch through your barrel before putting it away. Shooting moly-coated bullets does not put anything into your bore that's corrosive. The corrosive substances are already there just from shooting.
"Moly isn't corrosive itself but attracts moisture"
This is not exactly true. Moly does not attract moisture. But under the temperature and pressure of firing some of the moly will break down and oxidize to form SO2. SO2 attracts moisture. Water and SO2 form suphurous acid which is corrosive. It leaves a very distinctive looking corrosion that looks a lot like filiform corrosion through a borescope.
Jack
Jack, for what it's worth, I just got off of the phone with the folks at NECO.
1) They said molybdenum disulphide does attract moisture (a very mild desiccant)
2) Molybdenum disulphide does NOT break down, under pressure or heat, to a corrosive substance. They were very aware of what people are seeing in their bores. They said that material left in the bore from shooting, primarily salts from the primmer, coupled with moisture attracted from the moly, is where this comes from.
They said, what I have been saying about cleaning: When your done shooting, run a Kroil soaked patch through your barrel before putting it away. Shooting moly-coated bullets does not put anything into your bore that's corrosive. The corrosive substances are already there just from shooting.
Varmint Al did an interesting, non-scientific test only moly corrosion. Results can be seen here:
http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Corrosion
Partially based on that, I'm going to run moly in the AR I just got with stainless (one of yours Mike) and I'm going to run non moly in my bolt, it's not stainless and it will make it easy to keep the ammo seperate. I plan on just neck sizing for the bolt. Just got the AR today, can't wait to shoot it. I'll be sure and post results.
peace.
unloaded
http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Corrosion
Partially based on that, I'm going to run moly in the AR I just got with stainless (one of yours Mike) and I'm going to run non moly in my bolt, it's not stainless and it will make it easy to keep the ammo seperate. I plan on just neck sizing for the bolt. Just got the AR today, can't wait to shoot it. I'll be sure and post results.
peace.
unloaded
varmentwacker
New member
i have been shooting moly out of all my guns the last 20+ years.put 5000+ rounds through a 7mmstw.i use the berger bullet cleaning prosess and have never had any problems what so ever.a buddy of mine and i both had 22br built at the same time buy the same person.we both shoot the same 52gr bergers moly.i have cleaned mine after ever shooting his has not been cleaned since break in.both guns have over 2000 rounds through them and both will shoot in the teens.i aked him when he is going to clean it and his reply is when i shoot the firt 1/2 group.
missedshot
New member
I might also add that a lot of WHISPER shooters use moly bullets to help with friction issues and ballistic coef.When loading sub-sonic ammunition moly or liquid-alloy treated bullet whether copper jacketed or cast lead is utilized.Years ago before commercially available moly-coated bullets were alvailabe you could buy a moly-kit in which you treated{sprayed}your own bullets...
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
It looks like there are lots of different opinions on the exact chemistry involved. But general agreement that shooting moly bullets will result in corrosion if the barrel is not cleaned every day.
Jack
Jack
Claimed benefits of moly coated bullets include:
1)Extends barrel life
2)Increases number of (accurate) rounds between cleaning
3)Increases velocity
I have worn out two stainless & one carbon steel 30-06 target barrels, not to mention a number of half worn out Garand and M1A barrels; some with nothing but moly bullets, others w/o moly and some that started w/naked bullets and were last shot w/moly. Have also used moly in a few hunting rifles. Based on this rather limited experience, my conclusions are:
1)If moly extends barrel life (which I doubt), it was very precious few rounds. Throat erosion killed all of my barrels and heat/pressure in throat area was the primary cause and moly cannot reduce anything but friction IMHO. I did not experience any difference in the useful life of the barrel which shot only moly bullets when compared to those that shot only naked bullets or a combination, all three started throwing fliers at +/- 7000 rounds. For all practical purposes, the same(mild target)loads were used in all three barrels. Accuracy, not velocity was the goal.
2)Moly definately reduced fouling and resulted in easier cleaning and/or more rounds can be fired before accuracy begins to suffer.
3)Moly bullets reduce friction, therefore reduce velocity and pressure when compared to the same load behind a naked bullet.
I clean my rifles after each use regardless of number of rounds fired, and fortunately, my target rifles never showed a change in POI after cleaning. That has not always been the case with hunting rifle barrels, however.
Based on the above observations and my current type of shooting (predators, deer, nilgai & hog hunting), I no longer use moly. I can see the benefit to the PD shooters and maybe cross the course highpower shooters that do a lot of shooting, but it is not worth the hassle to me.
Regards,
hm
1)Extends barrel life
2)Increases number of (accurate) rounds between cleaning
3)Increases velocity
I have worn out two stainless & one carbon steel 30-06 target barrels, not to mention a number of half worn out Garand and M1A barrels; some with nothing but moly bullets, others w/o moly and some that started w/naked bullets and were last shot w/moly. Have also used moly in a few hunting rifles. Based on this rather limited experience, my conclusions are:
1)If moly extends barrel life (which I doubt), it was very precious few rounds. Throat erosion killed all of my barrels and heat/pressure in throat area was the primary cause and moly cannot reduce anything but friction IMHO. I did not experience any difference in the useful life of the barrel which shot only moly bullets when compared to those that shot only naked bullets or a combination, all three started throwing fliers at +/- 7000 rounds. For all practical purposes, the same(mild target)loads were used in all three barrels. Accuracy, not velocity was the goal.
2)Moly definately reduced fouling and resulted in easier cleaning and/or more rounds can be fired before accuracy begins to suffer.
3)Moly bullets reduce friction, therefore reduce velocity and pressure when compared to the same load behind a naked bullet.
I clean my rifles after each use regardless of number of rounds fired, and fortunately, my target rifles never showed a change in POI after cleaning. That has not always been the case with hunting rifle barrels, however.
Based on the above observations and my current type of shooting (predators, deer, nilgai & hog hunting), I no longer use moly. I can see the benefit to the PD shooters and maybe cross the course highpower shooters that do a lot of shooting, but it is not worth the hassle to me.
Regards,
hm