New 17 caliber rifle

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kevlars

New member
I got the new Predator & Prey issue today, and they show a new Remington rifle that sounds interesting. It's called the 17 Remington Fireball. It's a Fireball case necked down to 17 cal. They claim similar velocity and trajectory of a 22-250 out to 300 yards with a muzzle velocity of 4000 fps, uses 50% less powder and 86% less recoil than the 22-250. My question would be, is it going to be as reliable at taking down coyotes as say a 204 Ruger, or a 19-223 Calhoun?
kevlars
 
Jay is right. The 17 Mach IV is the Fireball necked down to .17 cal. The velocities are very similar to the .17 Rem, maybe just a little slower depending on how you load it. As far as performance goes, they say it does the job on coyotes as effectively as the .17 Rem. But just like any other .17 cal, shot placement is critical.
 
This is a new chambering from Remington. It's is not shown on their website yet, but it is going to be available in the 700 series. This is according to Predator & Prey magazine.
 
A few things to consider:

1. What is the bullet weight on this new caliber?

2. Who is making the ammo? Just Remington, or other companies, too?

3. As with all these new calibers that have come on the market recently, the big concern is availability of ammo and what do you do with the rifle, if, that caliber turns out to not sell enough to make a profit and the company stops making factory ammunition for that caliber?
 
Bluecoyote,
That's what makes me think that a better choice would be a 204 Ruger. I think that the 204 will be around for a while, and there is a larger selection of bullet weights available for a wider range of game, and more suitable for larger game, i.e. coyotes.
kevlars
 
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Remington has in the past only produced calibers that sell or are projected to sell in excess of 2500 units a year. Now, the 17 Remington barely fills that requirement. I wonder if Remington will in fact tool up to make another 17 that is not wanted or needed. Furthermore, Remington will change something about the design, so the factory rounds will not fit the original chamber of A 17 MACH IV. The 17 MK 4 has a 30 degree shoulder and the 221 has a 23 degree shoulder. You can safely bet IF Remington makes the round it will be with a 23 degree shoulder. I hope not, as I would like a supply of 17 MK 4 brass.
 
If the rumors are true, the 17 Remington Fireball with proper bullet selection and handloading, could make up into a fox hunters dream come true.

I'm also seeing alot of dead crows.........way,way out there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
This is news to me -and good news.

Rest assured the 221 fireball case is here to stay ,norma or lapua one or the other is making brass in the .20 cal/221 fb better known as a 20 VT = varmint/target.
The 17 mach IV shoots a 20gr bullet about like a 17 rem [based on a 222 mag case] shoots a 25gr bullet.For longrange fur taking the 17 rem definately has the advantage.
I have admired the little 17 machIV for a long time ,and have planned on rebarelling my cz 221 to that chambering but the darn thing won't stop shooting tiny groups and killing everything i point it at!
For a walking varminter a 17 mach IV would be hard to beat ,the recoil is moreless non-existent.W/a hunting style bullet coyotes will be no problem w/ that little round.Ask anybody over at coyotegods -they worship the 17 mach IV for coyote calling.
Well i hope they build them in a sporterweight gun -i'll get one for sure!ME
 
Quote:

Rest assured the 221 fireball case is here to stay ,norma or lapua one or the other is making brass in the .20 cal/221 fb better known as a 20 VT = varmint/target.



mike, can you post some details about that? Last I heard the deal with dakota fell apart... The only 221 brass I can find for my 20VT is rem brass, if there is some better quality brass available for purchase please let us know!

Im interested to hear more about the new rem chambering, however for the hand loader I dont really see the point with 17m4 already a wildcat staple. I know a guy who shoots 17rem but has never had a good thing to say about the 17 rem factory ammo, so winds up loading his own, the difference between his groups with the factory ammo vs. his hand loads is noticable. If rem comes out with a new chambering and offers ammo that is as poor as the 17 rem I have seen in my friends rifle I suspect many will wind up handloading in the first place, which really calls into question the need for a whole new chambering.

Thats my somewhat pesimistic view of the whole thing but I am excited to see what they have planned. I suspect its nothing more than a marketing plan to sell rifles. You can get a cooper in 17m4 for close to $1k, tomorrow. Theres a 300 yard target at my local gun shop that was shot with a 17m4 that gives me the shivers every time I see it, I cant shoot a group that small with my 20vt at 100 yards, Im a lousy shot though, heh.
 
17 Mach IV has been my coyote varmint cartride of choice for app 20+ years..
Granted I do mostly night calling with shots under 200 yds, but have to my reccolection never had a 25 gr hornady hollow point come out of a coyote,fox or bobcat with the exception of a high hit(spine) that never really entered to begin with.
Broken backs and busted legs take a second shot but the caliber is great if propperly placed.
If Remington does this chambering it would really kick the 17's up a respectable notch in my opinion. Providing they use an approite bullet weight in the ammunition department.
Looks like a great little brother for the 221 Fireball and potential doner action for all the 221 based cartridges ie 300-whisper, 6-221 etc,etc.. (Maybe then the price of the 221 brass would come down to a respectible price)
What Remington really should do with this 221 case is retaliate the Ruger chambering of the 204 and come out with a factory 20 caliber of their own such as the 20 vartarg or version there of such as the 20-221.
Hope they do!!
Would be intresting!!

Later
DF2
 
Could someone direct me to the information or post the article. I've been looking at building a second 17 Mach IV this time on a CZ action. If these rumours are true I may just wait and give the new Rem a try.
 
I use an XP-100 17 Mach IV handgun for my main fur getter on spot and stalk coyotes for the last 5 yrs. or so now. I like the heavier bullets of around 30 gr. or so, and love the cartridge.
 
Chuck,
In the latest issue of Predator & Prey magazine, they have a small write-up in the new products section about the 17 Fireball. Check out www.prdatorandpreymag.com. They speak of it being a fact, and not just rumor. They, Remington, don't have it on the website yet, but I would suspect that it will be soon.
kevlars
 
Thanks kevlars. I went to the web site but couldn't find any info on the 17 fireball. I suspect they haven't posted this article yet. I'll send Rem an email and see what they have to say.
 
I contacted Remington and here is a copy of the response they sent back. I was a bit disapointed but on the other hand I understand the reasoning for the definite maybe answer.
Response (Debbie) - 10/25/2006 11:09 AM
Dear Mr. McCann,

Thank you for your interest in Remington! At this time we are unable to provide information regarding 2007 new products or future development due to competitive reasons. Normally this type of proprietary information is kept secret until the product line is approved for the upcoming year. We usually announce new product information in middle to late December after our annual sales meeting. I apologize for not having the information at this time to gvie you a direct answer
 
precious_and_grace ,

I'm only repeating what i read some time back ,the deal w/dakota might well have fallen through.
Saubier dot com has a lot of info. on the 221 FB and it's sub-caliber inventions if you're interested.
My CZ 221 fb as stated has been so accurate i think i could just scoop up a full case of powder [aa 1680] and slosh a little off the top load a 40gr nos bt and shoot 1" groups.
Load development was moreless a waste of time at 100yds.I had to move to 200yds to see which loads were the best of the bunch.
I shot a 1" group at 200yds w/the FB in dead calm conditions
Although i can't do it everyday all day long.
If i find or see any info. about the brass i'll post it.ME
 
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