What is the difference in a pre-ban lower and a post ban lower? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
My AR knowledge is behind the curve I guess.
My AR knowledge is behind the curve I guess.
Pre-ban lower?
- Thread starter Yellowhammer
- Start date
So, if you have a post ban lower, you couldn't but a preban up on it?
This is kind of confusing. Looks like the upper would be pre-ban or post-ban and not the lower.
This is kind of confusing. Looks like the upper would be pre-ban or post-ban and not the lower.
coyotesmoke
New member
Exactly.
Quote:
Exactly.
I need some more explaination here if possible. I may be buying a lower tomorrow at a gun show if I find a good deal.
I don't really like the flash hider and stuff anyway, but want to know what I am getting. How do you know a pre-ban lower from a post-ban lower?
Can someone explain the reasoning behind a having a pre/post ban lower as opposed to an upper?
What got me to wondering all this is I saw a pre-ban lower on AR-15.com for $700 and thought that was high, when most complete lowers are around $225-$275.
Exactly.
I need some more explaination here if possible. I may be buying a lower tomorrow at a gun show if I find a good deal.
I don't really like the flash hider and stuff anyway, but want to know what I am getting. How do you know a pre-ban lower from a post-ban lower?
Can someone explain the reasoning behind a having a pre/post ban lower as opposed to an upper?
What got me to wondering all this is I saw a pre-ban lower on AR-15.com for $700 and thought that was high, when most complete lowers are around $225-$275.
This answers some of my questions I guess.
Pre/Post ban laws
But, if you had bought a lower before 1994, how would they know if you built it into a complete rifle before the cut-off date?
Now that the ban has been lifted, does the pre/post ban stuff still apply?
Or does it depend on what state you live in? I see ARs new ARs for sale in the shops with flash hiders all the time.
Pre/Post ban laws
But, if you had bought a lower before 1994, how would they know if you built it into a complete rifle before the cut-off date?
Now that the ban has been lifted, does the pre/post ban stuff still apply?
Or does it depend on what state you live in? I see ARs new ARs for sale in the shops with flash hiders all the time.
Last edited:
DocCoyote
New member
Quote:
But, if you had bought a lower before 1994, how would they know if you built it into a complete rifle before the cut-off date?
Sounds to me that you have to be able to prove, probably with receipts or something, that the gun was a SAW prior to the cut-off date. I may be wrong, but weren't these laws were only in effect for 10 years? You can have all of the fun stuff now can't you?
But, if you had bought a lower before 1994, how would they know if you built it into a complete rifle before the cut-off date?
Sounds to me that you have to be able to prove, probably with receipts or something, that the gun was a SAW prior to the cut-off date. I may be wrong, but weren't these laws were only in effect for 10 years? You can have all of the fun stuff now can't you?
Quote:
You can have all of the fun stuff now can't you?
That is what I thought, but why would someone give $700 for a "pre-ban" Bushmaster complete lower if that were the case?/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
You can have all of the fun stuff now can't you?
That is what I thought, but why would someone give $700 for a "pre-ban" Bushmaster complete lower if that were the case?/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
hun73r
New member
During the Assault Weapon ban (which sunsetted last year) you could only put a preban upper and lower together. Therefore if you wanted a flash suppressor or other "neat" things, you had to have a preban lower to put them.
The ATF can tell if your lower is preban or not by the serial number that is stamped on it. I am not sure how they tell on the uppers.
Now that the law has expired you don't have to worry about any of this. You can just buy a lower and add an upper wherever you find them. I just finished putting together my first AR and it was a lot easier than I thought it would be.
I think the reason that the pre-ban is still emphasized is because some states (like California) still have laws on the books regarding these weapons and their acceptable configurations.
Hope this helps, and I think this may have been my first post on this forum so HOWDY.
The ATF can tell if your lower is preban or not by the serial number that is stamped on it. I am not sure how they tell on the uppers.
Now that the law has expired you don't have to worry about any of this. You can just buy a lower and add an upper wherever you find them. I just finished putting together my first AR and it was a lot easier than I thought it would be.
I think the reason that the pre-ban is still emphasized is because some states (like California) still have laws on the books regarding these weapons and their acceptable configurations.
Hope this helps, and I think this may have been my first post on this forum so HOWDY.
Quote:
Build it the way you want to now, the BAN is GONE. Pre Ban and Post Ban mean nothing.
OK, this is what I was thinking.
So what made this lower worth the asking price? It went pretty quick too.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=352243
Like I said, I'm behind the curve from a lot of you, but I'm trying to learn. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Build it the way you want to now, the BAN is GONE. Pre Ban and Post Ban mean nothing.
OK, this is what I was thinking.
So what made this lower worth the asking price? It went pretty quick too.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=352243
Like I said, I'm behind the curve from a lot of you, but I'm trying to learn. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
hun73r
New member
I beleive that this is because the people buying the weapon still have laws in their states ( you can see they are from NY and CT) and the VLTOR collapsible stock retails for about $180. So even a complete new lower with and A2 stock is around $200-250 add the stock for a total of $400 or so. Then live in a state that requires pre-1984 lowers and you have a $700 part.
That is a little more than $100 bucks a digit for the serial number /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Good thing we live in Texas!!!
That is a little more than $100 bucks a digit for the serial number /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Good thing we live in Texas!!!
Bayou City Boy
New member
Pre-ban lowers were determined by a serial number range.
There was and maybe still is a place on Ar-15 .com - I haven't looked for several years - that had the serial number ranges from the various lower receiver makers as to what constituted a pre-ban lower.
A post ban upper (no serial numbers involved) is purely determined by a lack of two features - a threaded barrel with a flash suppressor and a bayonet lug found on a pre-ban upper. And with that, Billy Clinton made the world a safer place for all of us...../ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I know in my neighborhood alone, the number of full bayonet charges dropped dramatically from 1994 to 2004. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
The Ban itself stated you could not build a new pre-ban complete rifle using a pre-ban lower after a certain date (forget now what it was) that had never been assembled into a rifle before that date. I'm just glad the Ban is gone since a lot of it was very confusing as to interpretation and comprehension...and making any sense at all.
With the Sunset of the law, there are no longer any federal restrictions on "pre and post ban" as long as you do not get into full auto issues, etc.
Some states still have their own requirements as to pre and post ban weapons based pretty much on the old federal legislation. Like the previous poster stated, "God Bless Texas" for being a sane and rational state about it all.
HTH - BCB
There was and maybe still is a place on Ar-15 .com - I haven't looked for several years - that had the serial number ranges from the various lower receiver makers as to what constituted a pre-ban lower.
A post ban upper (no serial numbers involved) is purely determined by a lack of two features - a threaded barrel with a flash suppressor and a bayonet lug found on a pre-ban upper. And with that, Billy Clinton made the world a safer place for all of us...../ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I know in my neighborhood alone, the number of full bayonet charges dropped dramatically from 1994 to 2004. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
The Ban itself stated you could not build a new pre-ban complete rifle using a pre-ban lower after a certain date (forget now what it was) that had never been assembled into a rifle before that date. I'm just glad the Ban is gone since a lot of it was very confusing as to interpretation and comprehension...and making any sense at all.
With the Sunset of the law, there are no longer any federal restrictions on "pre and post ban" as long as you do not get into full auto issues, etc.
Some states still have their own requirements as to pre and post ban weapons based pretty much on the old federal legislation. Like the previous poster stated, "God Bless Texas" for being a sane and rational state about it all.
HTH - BCB
Quote:
Pre-ban lowers were determined by a serial number range.
There was and maybe still is a place on Ar-15 .com - I haven't looked for several years - that had the serial number ranges from the various lower receiver makers as to what constituted a pre-ban lower.
According to AR-15.com, that was never the case.
Many people also believe that a serial number can tell you whether or not a receiver is pre- or post-ban. This is not always the case. For example, if a manufacturer's books show a serial number as being manufactured on August 23, 1994, and also lists that serial number being shipped on September 3, 1994, is this a pre-ban receiver? Well, that information alone will not tell you. If the books only show when a serial number was made and left, we still don't know how it was shipped. Was it a rifle? or a receiver only? did the dealer who purchased it build it into a SAW before The Date? These are all questions that are unanswerable with the provided information, so don't go on these facts alone!
Pre-ban lowers were determined by a serial number range.
There was and maybe still is a place on Ar-15 .com - I haven't looked for several years - that had the serial number ranges from the various lower receiver makers as to what constituted a pre-ban lower.
According to AR-15.com, that was never the case.
Many people also believe that a serial number can tell you whether or not a receiver is pre- or post-ban. This is not always the case. For example, if a manufacturer's books show a serial number as being manufactured on August 23, 1994, and also lists that serial number being shipped on September 3, 1994, is this a pre-ban receiver? Well, that information alone will not tell you. If the books only show when a serial number was made and left, we still don't know how it was shipped. Was it a rifle? or a receiver only? did the dealer who purchased it build it into a SAW before The Date? These are all questions that are unanswerable with the provided information, so don't go on these facts alone!
Last edited:
Bayou City Boy
New member
Quote:
Quote:
Pre-ban lowers were determined by a serial number range.
There was and maybe still is a place on Ar-15 .com - I haven't looked for several years - that had the serial number ranges from the various lower receiver makers as to what constituted a pre-ban lower.
According to AR-15.com, that was never the case.
Many people also believe that a serial number can tell you whether or not a receiver is pre- or post-ban. This is not always the case. For example, if a manufacturer's books show a serial number as being manufactured on August 23, 1994, and also lists that serial number being shipped on September 3, 1994, is this a pre-ban receiver? Well, that information alone will not tell you. If the books only show when a serial number was made and left, we still don't know how it was shipped. Was it a rifle? or a receiver only? did the dealer who purchased it build it into a SAW before The Date? These are all questions that are unanswerable with the provided information, so don't go on these facts alone!
Yellowhammer:
What you included above about uncertainty is exactly why I made the comment I made in my earlier post and include again just below:
"The Ban itself stated you could not build a new pre-ban complete rifle using a pre-ban lower after a certain date (I forget now what it was) that had never been assembled into a rifle before that date."
During the ban (1994-2004), to be totally sure you had a properly configured rifle, you had to know when the lower in itself became a rifle and not just a lower. If you bought a lower after a certain date that had never been made into a rifle, you could not then build a "pre-ban" configuration rifle with a flash hider and a bayonet lug upper.
In essence, the Ban, as it was interpretated, attempted to make it impossible to build any totally new complete "pre-ban" rifles even though the lower in itself was by serial number definition a "pre-ban" lower.
Like I stated, that's why I added that paragraph.
There still, however, was a list of what was a pre-ban receiver - defined by serial numbers - that existed at one time on AR-15.com. The early AR-15.com sight was purely an informational sight and a far cry from the current site, and the first interpretations of what constituted pre and post ban from even the BATF was based on serial numbers. That interpretation quickly changed during the early life of the Ban. Thus the sentence I added.
Maybe a simple way to look at your question as you asked it:
1. A serial number determined what was pre-ban and post-ban lower recieivers. However, a serial number DOES NOT necessarily determine a legal pre-ban or post-ban RIFLE.
2. During the ban (1994-2004), the date an existing pre-ban stripped lower was first assembled as part of a complete rifle determined whether it could be later assembled as a legal or illegal pre-ban configuration rifle during the Ban. Ie., changing out the upper receivers only during the Ban.
For example, if I had legally bought a stripped lower receiver in 1992 (pre-ban by serial number)and put it in a drawer, in 1996 I could not assemble it into a complete pre-ban rifle with the pre-ban bayonet lug and flash hider on the upper receiver. I could however use the pre-ban lower to build a post-ban configuration rifle (no bayo lug and flash hider on the upper receiver).
Since the Ban has sunset, you can go to the gun show tomorrow and buy all the components - including a lower receiver - and build it into an AR-15 (with no other restrictions) as long as it has a 16" barrel to meet the legal definition of a rifle and contains all semi-auto parts.
It can be built in either "pre-ban" or "post ban" configurations. Since the Ban sunset, they are just terms once used....which still define what the rifle looks like.
All in all, that's all the Ban really did. It was a pure cosmetic thing....for politicians.....and in reality. It's now gone.
-BCB
Edited for additional clarification....hopefully. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Quote:
Pre-ban lowers were determined by a serial number range.
There was and maybe still is a place on Ar-15 .com - I haven't looked for several years - that had the serial number ranges from the various lower receiver makers as to what constituted a pre-ban lower.
According to AR-15.com, that was never the case.
Many people also believe that a serial number can tell you whether or not a receiver is pre- or post-ban. This is not always the case. For example, if a manufacturer's books show a serial number as being manufactured on August 23, 1994, and also lists that serial number being shipped on September 3, 1994, is this a pre-ban receiver? Well, that information alone will not tell you. If the books only show when a serial number was made and left, we still don't know how it was shipped. Was it a rifle? or a receiver only? did the dealer who purchased it build it into a SAW before The Date? These are all questions that are unanswerable with the provided information, so don't go on these facts alone!
Yellowhammer:
What you included above about uncertainty is exactly why I made the comment I made in my earlier post and include again just below:
"The Ban itself stated you could not build a new pre-ban complete rifle using a pre-ban lower after a certain date (I forget now what it was) that had never been assembled into a rifle before that date."
During the ban (1994-2004), to be totally sure you had a properly configured rifle, you had to know when the lower in itself became a rifle and not just a lower. If you bought a lower after a certain date that had never been made into a rifle, you could not then build a "pre-ban" configuration rifle with a flash hider and a bayonet lug upper.
In essence, the Ban, as it was interpretated, attempted to make it impossible to build any totally new complete "pre-ban" rifles even though the lower in itself was by serial number definition a "pre-ban" lower.
Like I stated, that's why I added that paragraph.
There still, however, was a list of what was a pre-ban receiver - defined by serial numbers - that existed at one time on AR-15.com. The early AR-15.com sight was purely an informational sight and a far cry from the current site, and the first interpretations of what constituted pre and post ban from even the BATF was based on serial numbers. That interpretation quickly changed during the early life of the Ban. Thus the sentence I added.
Maybe a simple way to look at your question as you asked it:
1. A serial number determined what was pre-ban and post-ban lower recieivers. However, a serial number DOES NOT necessarily determine a legal pre-ban or post-ban RIFLE.
2. During the ban (1994-2004), the date an existing pre-ban stripped lower was first assembled as part of a complete rifle determined whether it could be later assembled as a legal or illegal pre-ban configuration rifle during the Ban. Ie., changing out the upper receivers only during the Ban.
For example, if I had legally bought a stripped lower receiver in 1992 (pre-ban by serial number)and put it in a drawer, in 1996 I could not assemble it into a complete pre-ban rifle with the pre-ban bayonet lug and flash hider on the upper receiver. I could however use the pre-ban lower to build a post-ban configuration rifle (no bayo lug and flash hider on the upper receiver).
Since the Ban has sunset, you can go to the gun show tomorrow and buy all the components - including a lower receiver - and build it into an AR-15 (with no other restrictions) as long as it has a 16" barrel to meet the legal definition of a rifle and contains all semi-auto parts.
It can be built in either "pre-ban" or "post ban" configurations. Since the Ban sunset, they are just terms once used....which still define what the rifle looks like.
All in all, that's all the Ban really did. It was a pure cosmetic thing....for politicians.....and in reality. It's now gone.
-BCB
Edited for additional clarification....hopefully. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Last edited:
Black_Wolf
New member
Current NY and CT laws are that i must have a fixed stock on my post ban AR. No 6 position or 4 position retractable stocks or folders. Magazines must not exceed ten round capacity. No high cap mags. Barrel must be 16" or more, and any brakes or suppressors used to attain that 16" must be pinned and welded over. No threaded removables unless the barrel is over 16" with the item removed. This barrel requirement is nationwide, not just in NY. Yes this pre ban post ban stuff can be confusing and stupid if you ask me. As long as the AR isnt full auto and in civilian possession i dont see a problem. IMO
Quote:
What is the difference in a pre-ban lower and a post ban lower? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
My AR knowledge is behind the curve I guess.
There is no difference other than the serial number and the date of manufacture. Unless you live in Kali., or other communist states preban-postban don't mean anything.
What is the difference in a pre-ban lower and a post ban lower? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
My AR knowledge is behind the curve I guess.
There is no difference other than the serial number and the date of manufacture. Unless you live in Kali., or other communist states preban-postban don't mean anything.
Black_Wolf
New member
Yep, and thats why i'm getting the hell out of here and moving next week. Sweet home Indiana, a pro gun state. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Quote:
Yep, and thats why i'm getting the hell out of here and moving next week. Sweet home Indiana, a pro gun state. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
A friend of mine just moved to Indiana a couple of months ago. Just before he left Kalifonia, he purchased several rifles that he has always wanted. He planned on using these rifles for deer and critter hunting. Now that he is firmly planted in Indiana, he finds out he cannot hunt with rifles in that state. What's up with that???
Yep, and thats why i'm getting the hell out of here and moving next week. Sweet home Indiana, a pro gun state. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
A friend of mine just moved to Indiana a couple of months ago. Just before he left Kalifonia, he purchased several rifles that he has always wanted. He planned on using these rifles for deer and critter hunting. Now that he is firmly planted in Indiana, he finds out he cannot hunt with rifles in that state. What's up with that???