primers for AR-15
- Thread starter mark11
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Bullmastiff
New member
I use regular small rifle primers in 223 with no problem....even WSR. I prefer small rifle magnum primers in my 6.5 Grendel....but can get by with regular small rifle if I have to. Others' mileage may vary.
BabaOriley
New member
Utahdogger
New member
I've had good luck so far with the Remington 7 1/2's
Evil_Lurker
New member
Quote:
is it okay to use regular small rifle primers to reload for the AR-15, or do you have to use the military small rifle primers ?
I've only ever used CCI SR and SR Mag. primers and I've never had a problem.
Will it raise the possibility of a slam fire?
Yes.
But my AR barely dimples a primer and I'm going to keep using what I've been using.
The arsenal primers have a slightly thicker cup, but they act the same as a standard primer, and are the same dinensions. It just takes a little more abuse to set them off.
is it okay to use regular small rifle primers to reload for the AR-15, or do you have to use the military small rifle primers ?
I've only ever used CCI SR and SR Mag. primers and I've never had a problem.
Will it raise the possibility of a slam fire?
Yes.
But my AR barely dimples a primer and I'm going to keep using what I've been using.
The arsenal primers have a slightly thicker cup, but they act the same as a standard primer, and are the same dinensions. It just takes a little more abuse to set them off.
Hidalgo
Well-known member
Quote:
Clean the pockets and seat the primers to the bottom there should be no problem with any primer.
Perhaps you're not familiar with the operation of the AR-15./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Even a properly seated primer can be subject to an unintentional firing.
When the bolt closes on a newly chambered round, the floating firing pin hits the primer and will usually hit it hard enough to create a dent. There have been occasions where this caused the chambered round to fire. BabaOriley posted a link to Calhoon's data on primers, and it's a great idea to use a primer with a thicker cup when loading for the AR-15. While this is a very unusual event, in my opinion it isn't worth taking a risk. Even benchrest primers are cheap.
Clean the pockets and seat the primers to the bottom there should be no problem with any primer.
Perhaps you're not familiar with the operation of the AR-15./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Even a properly seated primer can be subject to an unintentional firing.
When the bolt closes on a newly chambered round, the floating firing pin hits the primer and will usually hit it hard enough to create a dent. There have been occasions where this caused the chambered round to fire. BabaOriley posted a link to Calhoon's data on primers, and it's a great idea to use a primer with a thicker cup when loading for the AR-15. While this is a very unusual event, in my opinion it isn't worth taking a risk. Even benchrest primers are cheap.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
If you worry about slam fires with an AR, you must loose sleep worrying about meteor strikes.
Jack
Jack
Bayou City Boy
New member
Quote:
If you worry about slam fires with an AR, you must loose sleep worrying about meteor strikes.
Jack
LOL...!!! Thank you, Jack.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Those words put this whole issue into a pretty good perspective concerning reality versus myth.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
-BCB
If you worry about slam fires with an AR, you must loose sleep worrying about meteor strikes.
Jack
LOL...!!! Thank you, Jack.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Those words put this whole issue into a pretty good perspective concerning reality versus myth.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
-BCB
Hidalgo
Well-known member
Quote:
If you worry about slam fires with an AR, you must loose sleep worrying about meteor strikes.
Jack
Just what this place needed......a smart-arse remark from a moderator. Nice way to set an example, Jack. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
What's wrong with me being as safe as possible when my son is using the rifle? Is it worth the difference in price on the primers to get the peace of mind? You bet it is.
If you worry about slam fires with an AR, you must loose sleep worrying about meteor strikes.
Jack
Just what this place needed......a smart-arse remark from a moderator. Nice way to set an example, Jack. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
What's wrong with me being as safe as possible when my son is using the rifle? Is it worth the difference in price on the primers to get the peace of mind? You bet it is.
Mrgunslinger
New member
If you look at 3 different reloading manuals,you will see
what they are using.
Pick one you can get and have at it.
what they are using.
Pick one you can get and have at it.
Evil_Lurker
New member
Quote:
Those words put this whole issue into a pretty good perspective concerning reality versus myth....
Well, what exactly is the reality vs. the myth?
The reality is the military specs arsenal primers for NATO 5.56 mm ammo.
The myth is what?
Just wondering. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Those words put this whole issue into a pretty good perspective concerning reality versus myth....
Well, what exactly is the reality vs. the myth?
The reality is the military specs arsenal primers for NATO 5.56 mm ammo.
The myth is what?
Just wondering. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
knockemdown
New member
I've got more than a few thousand WSR primers through various ARs without a slam fire. And my guns ain't babied...
I, too, have fired many thousands of rounds through gas guns using regular primers and have never had a slamfire in one of my rifles. Most of my experience has been with M1/M14’s, only recently with the AR’s and that to a much more limited degree. Having said that, I do use the mil spec primers when loading for the M1/M14.
Thankfully, slamfires are a relatively rare occurrence in any gas gun, but they have been documented, especially in M1’s & M14’s. Do they occur in AR’s? I don’t know. Is it unreasonable to take precautions just in case……your call.
A slamfire in either the M1 or M14 can have disastrous results if it occurs before the bolt is in battery. The bolt design of the AR would seem to make firing out of battery nearly impossible since the firing pin is not long enough to reach the primer until bolt locks.
Lack of care in following careful reloading practices or a bit of debris on bolt face, or perhaps a broken firing pin, combined with a soft primer could cause a slamfire, even in an AR.
While the following involved an M1, hopefully it will illustrate what can happen should a rifle slamfire while not in battery. I have personal knowledge of several other such events that I did not actually witness. One was an M14 using military issue ammo in which the shooter received some serious injuries, so the hard primer is not absolute insurance against a slamfire.
A friend who is a very experienced highpower competitor and reloader wrecked his match grade M1 Garand using the same handloads he has used for years when the rifle slam fired out of battery. Bent his op-rod, blew extractor/ejector out of bolt and rounded the receiver locking lug recess about 1/8" showing the bolt lug (thankfully) had barely entered the recess but was not fully in battery at the time the slamfire occurred. He received a cut on the forehead and had somewhat of a problem with his trigger control for a while thereafter. Fortunately, the rifle, and his shooting ability have since been restored.
Upon examination of the remaining lot of ammo, we found that the rounds did not have sufficient headspace (clearance) in his snug, match chamber. He had loaded this batch of ammo using the same (full length) die setting as always. Remember, all previous lots had measured OK. The problem stemmed from the fact that this particular lot of brass had been fired at least 8 times and had work hardened. His dies had been set to give proper headspace with once fired brass and he failed to check headspace on this lot after loading. The harder brass springs back more than softer brass after sizing which resulted in oversized (for his chamber)rounds.
Other than a dirty chamber, a broken firing pin or a pin that is no longer free floating for whatever reason, IMHO, ammo is probably the number one cause of slam fires in the Garand & M14. Anything that can cause the round to "stop short" of full chambering can result in the firing pin hitting the primer with sufficient force to set it off. If this occurs before the bolt is in battery, it can be disastrous!
Soft primers can contribute to a slam fire. The CCI #34 & #41 military primers have a hard cup to duplicate GI ammo, most of which is loaded with a hard primer. Handloaders must be aware of two other factors that can result in slam fires.
First, make it a practice to run your thumb over the primer as each round is removed from the press to be sure that the primer is fully seated.
Secondly, each cartridge must be sized sufficiently to fit your rifle's chamber giving proper headspace clearance. I would not load for any "gas gun" without using a cartridge case headspace gauge. Best practice is to run each case through the case gauge at the time the loaded round comes off the press after determining the actual headspace required for your rifle; remember, all rifle chambers are not created equally. At the very least, spot check every few rounds in a given lot of reloads (for this to be acceptable, one must keep all brass in lots that have been fired the same number of times).
Hopefully, this information may help someone else avoid this pitfall.
Regards,
hm
Thankfully, slamfires are a relatively rare occurrence in any gas gun, but they have been documented, especially in M1’s & M14’s. Do they occur in AR’s? I don’t know. Is it unreasonable to take precautions just in case……your call.
A slamfire in either the M1 or M14 can have disastrous results if it occurs before the bolt is in battery. The bolt design of the AR would seem to make firing out of battery nearly impossible since the firing pin is not long enough to reach the primer until bolt locks.
Lack of care in following careful reloading practices or a bit of debris on bolt face, or perhaps a broken firing pin, combined with a soft primer could cause a slamfire, even in an AR.
While the following involved an M1, hopefully it will illustrate what can happen should a rifle slamfire while not in battery. I have personal knowledge of several other such events that I did not actually witness. One was an M14 using military issue ammo in which the shooter received some serious injuries, so the hard primer is not absolute insurance against a slamfire.
A friend who is a very experienced highpower competitor and reloader wrecked his match grade M1 Garand using the same handloads he has used for years when the rifle slam fired out of battery. Bent his op-rod, blew extractor/ejector out of bolt and rounded the receiver locking lug recess about 1/8" showing the bolt lug (thankfully) had barely entered the recess but was not fully in battery at the time the slamfire occurred. He received a cut on the forehead and had somewhat of a problem with his trigger control for a while thereafter. Fortunately, the rifle, and his shooting ability have since been restored.
Upon examination of the remaining lot of ammo, we found that the rounds did not have sufficient headspace (clearance) in his snug, match chamber. He had loaded this batch of ammo using the same (full length) die setting as always. Remember, all previous lots had measured OK. The problem stemmed from the fact that this particular lot of brass had been fired at least 8 times and had work hardened. His dies had been set to give proper headspace with once fired brass and he failed to check headspace on this lot after loading. The harder brass springs back more than softer brass after sizing which resulted in oversized (for his chamber)rounds.
Other than a dirty chamber, a broken firing pin or a pin that is no longer free floating for whatever reason, IMHO, ammo is probably the number one cause of slam fires in the Garand & M14. Anything that can cause the round to "stop short" of full chambering can result in the firing pin hitting the primer with sufficient force to set it off. If this occurs before the bolt is in battery, it can be disastrous!
Soft primers can contribute to a slam fire. The CCI #34 & #41 military primers have a hard cup to duplicate GI ammo, most of which is loaded with a hard primer. Handloaders must be aware of two other factors that can result in slam fires.
First, make it a practice to run your thumb over the primer as each round is removed from the press to be sure that the primer is fully seated.
Secondly, each cartridge must be sized sufficiently to fit your rifle's chamber giving proper headspace clearance. I would not load for any "gas gun" without using a cartridge case headspace gauge. Best practice is to run each case through the case gauge at the time the loaded round comes off the press after determining the actual headspace required for your rifle; remember, all rifle chambers are not created equally. At the very least, spot check every few rounds in a given lot of reloads (for this to be acceptable, one must keep all brass in lots that have been fired the same number of times).
Hopefully, this information may help someone else avoid this pitfall.
Regards,
hm
CAT DADDY COLD
New member
Quote:
I've got more than a few thousand WSR primers through various ARs without a slam fire. And my guns ain't babied...
Fred - I could say that until about a month ago. I was using WSR and had a slamfire when I hit the bolt release.
The rifle was on a bag and pointed downrange, so no harm was done. Cept for my underware. (Glad I wasn't going comando...lol)
To lay this out, the rifle was on fire when I released the bolt. The trigger is light, but that lower has never even doubled, so I call it a slamfire with an AR.
Just a heads up and worth what it cost you, but if I am asked I now say YES it is possible to have a slam fire with an AR15 and WSR primers.
Regards
Kelly
I've got more than a few thousand WSR primers through various ARs without a slam fire. And my guns ain't babied...
Fred - I could say that until about a month ago. I was using WSR and had a slamfire when I hit the bolt release.
The rifle was on a bag and pointed downrange, so no harm was done. Cept for my underware. (Glad I wasn't going comando...lol)
To lay this out, the rifle was on fire when I released the bolt. The trigger is light, but that lower has never even doubled, so I call it a slamfire with an AR.
Just a heads up and worth what it cost you, but if I am asked I now say YES it is possible to have a slam fire with an AR15 and WSR primers.
Regards
Kelly
knockemdown
New member
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Glad you were observing the 'rules of the road' Kerry and nobody got hurt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
knockemdown
New member
Kelly, now that I'm thinking...
Did you check to see if the trigger tripped after the fact?
If the bolt slamming home set off the trigger, that wouldn't constitute a slam fire, but rather a trigger issue...
Did you have a smith look at it?
Again, glad you are OK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Did you check to see if the trigger tripped after the fact?
If the bolt slamming home set off the trigger, that wouldn't constitute a slam fire, but rather a trigger issue...
Did you have a smith look at it?
Again, glad you are OK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
CAT DADDY COLD
New member
Fred,
I had the mag loaded with 5 rounds. The bolt cycled and reset the trigger. Chambering a fresh cartridge.
No way to know for sure if it was a trigger issue. What I can say is I have tried to make it happen again and have had no issues with the trigger while single feeding using the bolt release or charging handle, because I was thinking trigger issue. Could it have been the trigger? Sure. Everything mechanical can fail. It could have been other factors also.
From where I was sitting, I called it a slamfire. I could be wrong. Won't be the first or last time, but I wanted to share and hope that I am giving good information.
Again - I have fired several thousand rounds thru AR's using many differant lowers and this only happened once. I hope it never happens again.
Hidalgo - I sleep fine at night, but do understand your point.
Edit to say - I tested some 55grNBT out of the 6WOA just before dark yesterday with this lower and single fed each round - trying to create the slamfire/trigger issue again.
The lower performed flawlessly and I think I found a load that will work if I decide to change from my 75gr Vmax "go to" load.
catch you later
Kelly
I had the mag loaded with 5 rounds. The bolt cycled and reset the trigger. Chambering a fresh cartridge.
No way to know for sure if it was a trigger issue. What I can say is I have tried to make it happen again and have had no issues with the trigger while single feeding using the bolt release or charging handle, because I was thinking trigger issue. Could it have been the trigger? Sure. Everything mechanical can fail. It could have been other factors also.
From where I was sitting, I called it a slamfire. I could be wrong. Won't be the first or last time, but I wanted to share and hope that I am giving good information.
Again - I have fired several thousand rounds thru AR's using many differant lowers and this only happened once. I hope it never happens again.
Hidalgo - I sleep fine at night, but do understand your point.
Edit to say - I tested some 55grNBT out of the 6WOA just before dark yesterday with this lower and single fed each round - trying to create the slamfire/trigger issue again.
The lower performed flawlessly and I think I found a load that will work if I decide to change from my 75gr Vmax "go to" load.
catch you later
Kelly
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