Pulsar Trail XQ50 LRF POI change
- Thread starter Alan D
- Start date
Kirsch
Active member
Pulsar has experienced some POI shift issues and it impacted all Trail models. It wasn't only isolated to XQ or XPs and it impacted all objective sizes. Pulsar has continued to insist they have less than a 3% return rate on the Trails. If your friend hasn't updated the firmware to the latest version, use the StreamVision app and update it. This may solve the issue.
I would also recommend sighting it in at 100 vs 200. You can always set it for an 1" high at 100 but it is hard to get a good thermal sight picture at 200 on a target. Another tip is make sure the target isn't blooming as this will make it hard to really obtain a precise aiming point.
If the firmware update doesn't fix/help, I would recommend putting on a glass scope, and make sure the gun and loads are shooting as you would expect just to make sure something hasn't happened to the accuracy in general. Assuming, the gun performs as expected, make sure the thermal mount connections are all tight. If you still experience the problem, I would recommend contacting Pulsar and sending it in.
I experienced a POI issue with a Trail as well, and it can be very frustrating.
I would also recommend sighting it in at 100 vs 200. You can always set it for an 1" high at 100 but it is hard to get a good thermal sight picture at 200 on a target. Another tip is make sure the target isn't blooming as this will make it hard to really obtain a precise aiming point.
If the firmware update doesn't fix/help, I would recommend putting on a glass scope, and make sure the gun and loads are shooting as you would expect just to make sure something hasn't happened to the accuracy in general. Assuming, the gun performs as expected, make sure the thermal mount connections are all tight. If you still experience the problem, I would recommend contacting Pulsar and sending it in.
I experienced a POI issue with a Trail as well, and it can be very frustrating.
Bowhntr6pt
Well-known member
Zero changing or rifle and unit not grouping?
I never heard of a Pulsar unit being the cause of "poor grouping" per se... failing to hold a zero on the other hand is classic for Pulsar Trail units.
Pulsar told me that the housing inside the unit cracks, thus the zero can and will shift. Perhaps something is broken inside allowing movement. They also blamed it on firmware.
I'm not buying the 3% statistic. Maybe all Pulsar products combined... but no way the Trails are at 3% return with all the posts you see here and other sources. I find that extremely hard to believe.
I never heard of a Pulsar unit being the cause of "poor grouping" per se... failing to hold a zero on the other hand is classic for Pulsar Trail units.
Pulsar told me that the housing inside the unit cracks, thus the zero can and will shift. Perhaps something is broken inside allowing movement. They also blamed it on firmware.
I'm not buying the 3% statistic. Maybe all Pulsar products combined... but no way the Trails are at 3% return with all the posts you see here and other sources. I find that extremely hard to believe.
JTPinTX
Custom Call Maker
Well, I am the "friend" Alan mentioned. It is my brand new, out of the box, Trail XQ50 LRF he is talking about. I just got it about 10 days ago and immediately started having trouble.
It came with the latest software installed. When I connected to Streamvision it said no updates were available.
The rifle isn't a 223, it is a 6.5 Grendel AR. Matched upper and lower, very proven rifle and load. 95 grain VMAX going 2625 fps, it is pretty much a 3/4 MOA gun any time you want to put it on paper. During all the testing shooting good groups was not a problem at all. That part of the testing I have full confidence in. No observable difference between group size from when shooting a conventional scope.
Shot log on the Pulsar shows I put 53 rounds through it doing testing. The problem was repeatable, and was apparent on targets at 50, 100, and 200 yards. Yesterday at 100 yards I shot at 10 am, 12 am, and 530 pm. Over the course of less than 8 hours it moved 3" up and to the right. The worst I saw was the day before at 200 yards. From 730 am to 545 pm it moved 7.5" up and slightly right on my "200 yard" range, which is actually 196 yards. My 200 yard range has an elevated platform for shooting prone with a bipod and rear bag. My 100 yard range has a very solid wood bench that is concreted into the ground.
I could leave the unit on for 45 minutes or an hour, shoot several groups, and it would pretty much stay put. But if you turned it off, came back later and shot again, maybe POI would be fairly close to the same, maybe not.
I believe it to be directly related to the polymer housing. I work in the plastics industry myself and know the kind of issues that can crop up when you start mating polymer and metal together under changing temperature conditions. I am about 95% sure I am going to go into a Thermion XP38 with the aluminum housing instead.
Originally it was mounted with the standard Pulsar mount because I felt it would be a more solid mount. After documenting the problems on my 200 yard range, at the request of my dealer, I swapped to the Pulsar QD mount and ran the 50 and 100 yard tests. "Maybe" the results were not quite as bad, but the temperature swings were not as bad yesterday either. It was a much cooler and more moderate day. The problems were apparent with both mounts though.
Before anyone asks, my dealer is fully working with me and is completely taking care of me on this deal. The unit is boxed back up today and ready to ship back.
It came with the latest software installed. When I connected to Streamvision it said no updates were available.
The rifle isn't a 223, it is a 6.5 Grendel AR. Matched upper and lower, very proven rifle and load. 95 grain VMAX going 2625 fps, it is pretty much a 3/4 MOA gun any time you want to put it on paper. During all the testing shooting good groups was not a problem at all. That part of the testing I have full confidence in. No observable difference between group size from when shooting a conventional scope.
Shot log on the Pulsar shows I put 53 rounds through it doing testing. The problem was repeatable, and was apparent on targets at 50, 100, and 200 yards. Yesterday at 100 yards I shot at 10 am, 12 am, and 530 pm. Over the course of less than 8 hours it moved 3" up and to the right. The worst I saw was the day before at 200 yards. From 730 am to 545 pm it moved 7.5" up and slightly right on my "200 yard" range, which is actually 196 yards. My 200 yard range has an elevated platform for shooting prone with a bipod and rear bag. My 100 yard range has a very solid wood bench that is concreted into the ground.
I could leave the unit on for 45 minutes or an hour, shoot several groups, and it would pretty much stay put. But if you turned it off, came back later and shot again, maybe POI would be fairly close to the same, maybe not.
I believe it to be directly related to the polymer housing. I work in the plastics industry myself and know the kind of issues that can crop up when you start mating polymer and metal together under changing temperature conditions. I am about 95% sure I am going to go into a Thermion XP38 with the aluminum housing instead.
Originally it was mounted with the standard Pulsar mount because I felt it would be a more solid mount. After documenting the problems on my 200 yard range, at the request of my dealer, I swapped to the Pulsar QD mount and ran the 50 and 100 yard tests. "Maybe" the results were not quite as bad, but the temperature swings were not as bad yesterday either. It was a much cooler and more moderate day. The problems were apparent with both mounts though.
Before anyone asks, my dealer is fully working with me and is completely taking care of me on this deal. The unit is boxed back up today and ready to ship back.
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JTPinTX
Custom Call Maker
Just got off the phone with the dealer. He is sending me a shipping label to return the scope, and putting me on the list for an XQ-50 Thermion in an American Defense mount (plus refund difference in price) as a replacement. When it comes in and I get it zeroed and tested I will report in.
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Bowhntr6pt
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: JTPinTX
The problem was repeatable, and was apparent on targets at 50, 100, and 200 yards. Yesterday at 100 yards I shot at 10 am, 12 am, and 530 pm. Over the course of less than 8 hours it moved 3" up and to the right. The worst I saw was the day before at 200 yards. From 730 am to 545 pm it moved 7.5" up and slightly right on my "200 yard" range, which is actually 196 yards. My 200 yard range has an elevated platform for shooting prone with a bipod and rear bag. My 100 yard range has a very solid wood bench that is concreted into the ground.
I could leave the unit on for 45 minutes or an hour, shoot several groups, and it would pretty much stay put. But if you turned it off, came back later and shot again, maybe POI would be fairly close to the same, maybe not.
I believe it to be directly related to the polymer housing.
Unfortunately, despite the Pulsar fans, this is typical.
Bail while you can.
Too much $$$ for a unit to do this. Not to mention the liability of using an sighting device KNOWN to be problematic.
The problem was repeatable, and was apparent on targets at 50, 100, and 200 yards. Yesterday at 100 yards I shot at 10 am, 12 am, and 530 pm. Over the course of less than 8 hours it moved 3" up and to the right. The worst I saw was the day before at 200 yards. From 730 am to 545 pm it moved 7.5" up and slightly right on my "200 yard" range, which is actually 196 yards. My 200 yard range has an elevated platform for shooting prone with a bipod and rear bag. My 100 yard range has a very solid wood bench that is concreted into the ground.
I could leave the unit on for 45 minutes or an hour, shoot several groups, and it would pretty much stay put. But if you turned it off, came back later and shot again, maybe POI would be fairly close to the same, maybe not.
I believe it to be directly related to the polymer housing.
Unfortunately, despite the Pulsar fans, this is typical.
Bail while you can.
Too much $$$ for a unit to do this. Not to mention the liability of using an sighting device KNOWN to be problematic.
Even a Croatian hunter had mentioned to me about problems moving the POI with his Trail XP50. He too had observed POI displacement as the temperature changed in the hunting area. It even happened that if he hunted near the sea, the temperature varied less and the POI moved almost nothing. If he went to shoot in the middle of the mountains, the temperature varied more and the POI changed. So this is due to the coupling of the polymer body of the device to the steel slide which is fixed on the rifle. And perhaps even changing the attack it seems that the problem is not resolved .... Here is why the reason for those who want to make long range shots is to buy Thermion (which has an aluminum body) instead of the Trail ( which has a polymer body)...... 8 inches to 196 yards is a little too much ....
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On my third Trail XP50. Have had to move it one click recently but still
pretty happy with it after 8 months. None of the 4 to 6 inch jumps of the first two units. Also have to say customer service was GREAT. I hope QC is better on the Thermions. I'm wondering if the new Trail XP50 LRF still has a plastic body? I had a Trijicon jump 10 inches right 3 weeks ago, resighted and its been on target. I check all my thermal scopes pretty regular. Have had some very slight POI creep with this Trijicon unit previously. This old guy wont ever trust electronics and computers completely.
pretty happy with it after 8 months. None of the 4 to 6 inch jumps of the first two units. Also have to say customer service was GREAT. I hope QC is better on the Thermions. I'm wondering if the new Trail XP50 LRF still has a plastic body? I had a Trijicon jump 10 inches right 3 weeks ago, resighted and its been on target. I check all my thermal scopes pretty regular. Have had some very slight POI creep with this Trijicon unit previously. This old guy wont ever trust electronics and computers completely.
JTPinTX
Custom Call Maker
I don't trust anything completely. I check and re-check all of my stuff on a regular basis. Usually it is all good to go, but sometimes something crops up. But just knowing that a rifle/scope is on and solid gives lots of confidence in making good shots. That is why I love having my shooting ranges here where I work. Doesn't take hardly any time just to sit down at lunch or before/after work and check one real quick when conditions are right. I have found lots of things this way that were not the way they were supposed to be. I take nothing for granted. Every new piece of gear I get has to prove itself to me. Kind of surprising sometimes the products that aren't able to do that.
I know of around 10 or so Trail models in my local hunting community. Most of those guys are pig hunters that do most of their shooting under 100 yards. Most of it is stalking or shooting out of moving vehicles. They shoot factory ammo, zero their guns once, and as long as they are killing pigs at a decent ratio never check it again. I think the majority of those guys would not know if theirs was shifting zero or not.
A couple other local coyote hunters I know plan to check theirs good now after this experience I have had.
I am in manufacturing myself. I know any product can and does have occasional problems. No complaints so far on how that has been handled. But, I don't think I personally can have confidence in a polymer frame unit, for the use I intend. If I was shooting pigs at 50-100, and not coyotes at 200+, maybe I would feel different about it. But holding zero dead on in a big stickler for me. I shoot and test enough if it is moving I will know. And if it is moving, I will have no confidence in it. I think I will be much more comfortable with the metal tube on the Thermion.
I know of around 10 or so Trail models in my local hunting community. Most of those guys are pig hunters that do most of their shooting under 100 yards. Most of it is stalking or shooting out of moving vehicles. They shoot factory ammo, zero their guns once, and as long as they are killing pigs at a decent ratio never check it again. I think the majority of those guys would not know if theirs was shifting zero or not.
A couple other local coyote hunters I know plan to check theirs good now after this experience I have had.
I am in manufacturing myself. I know any product can and does have occasional problems. No complaints so far on how that has been handled. But, I don't think I personally can have confidence in a polymer frame unit, for the use I intend. If I was shooting pigs at 50-100, and not coyotes at 200+, maybe I would feel different about it. But holding zero dead on in a big stickler for me. I shoot and test enough if it is moving I will know. And if it is moving, I will have no confidence in it. I think I will be much more comfortable with the metal tube on the Thermion.
varminter .223
Well-known member
My experience is always give the scope a few minutes with display on to come to temp and shooting in direct sunlight causes poi shift due to the black polymer absorbing sunlight and imo changing shape as the irregular shaped housing expands and contracts. With my 3rd xp50 trail my poi shifts pretty much disappeared when giving the unit a few minutes to warm up and only shooting in the dark.
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