Putting a barrel on from a different action?
- Thread starter zr600
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MasterBlaster
Active member
Best to have it checked with the proper head space gauges. Not much difference between safe and a bomb.
MB
MB
Originally Posted By: zr600Ok if I was to buy a barrel from a different action that’s already threaded shouldered and chambered can it just be threaded on to my action and it should be good? Or would I have to take it to a smith to have it re head spaced?
I now a LOT of guys from our precision shooting team that swap barrels all the time. That said, if you don't know what you're doing, it can be very dangerous. Safer to take it to a QUALIFIED gunsmith. Just be careful, not all gunsmiths are created equal.
I now a LOT of guys from our precision shooting team that swap barrels all the time. That said, if you don't know what you're doing, it can be very dangerous. Safer to take it to a QUALIFIED gunsmith. Just be careful, not all gunsmiths are created equal.
I have been swapping Remington barrels since the mid 80's. Only two had headspace too long, and they were both 308's.
Headspace tighens up if you just take a barrel off a Rem and screw it back on due to epoxy in the threads.
So, for a guy that reloads, he has a tighter head space, but just screw the full length sizer down a tad further....no big deal. Now, if this guy only wants to shoot factory ammo, then the bolt may close tight on some rounds.
I screw a new factory barrel on my 700, then I close the bolt on a new case. If it closes easy, then I smoke the shoulder on the piece of brass to see if there is any contact at all. Then I try and insert a fired piece of brass from another barrel. How the bolt closes on that piece of brass indicates to me how long the headspace is.
Usually, you have to bump the shoulder on the new brass or full length size the brass fired in another barrel.
Next, check to see if your bolt face is touching the back of the barrel. You should be able to feel the bolt closing hard, simply smoke the end of the bolt nose with a candle or cigarette lighter, examine the smoke to see if has been wiped off from touching the back of the barrel.
No other brand of barrels can be swapped between actions other than Remington on stock factory rifles. Barrels off of Stolle actions can be swapped back and forth easily, other customs also. Ruger and Winchester barrels can not be swapped. Ruger will tell you in a skinny minute that their barrels are never intended to be removed from the action.
Everyone is lawyered up these days, so answers have to be correct. So, my advise to anyone is take the barrel to a gunsmith, have him install the new barrel, check/adjust headspace properly.
I have only shot a hand full of factory loads in my life, and those were in other people's rifles.
Headspace tighens up if you just take a barrel off a Rem and screw it back on due to epoxy in the threads.
So, for a guy that reloads, he has a tighter head space, but just screw the full length sizer down a tad further....no big deal. Now, if this guy only wants to shoot factory ammo, then the bolt may close tight on some rounds.
I screw a new factory barrel on my 700, then I close the bolt on a new case. If it closes easy, then I smoke the shoulder on the piece of brass to see if there is any contact at all. Then I try and insert a fired piece of brass from another barrel. How the bolt closes on that piece of brass indicates to me how long the headspace is.
Usually, you have to bump the shoulder on the new brass or full length size the brass fired in another barrel.
Next, check to see if your bolt face is touching the back of the barrel. You should be able to feel the bolt closing hard, simply smoke the end of the bolt nose with a candle or cigarette lighter, examine the smoke to see if has been wiped off from touching the back of the barrel.
No other brand of barrels can be swapped between actions other than Remington on stock factory rifles. Barrels off of Stolle actions can be swapped back and forth easily, other customs also. Ruger and Winchester barrels can not be swapped. Ruger will tell you in a skinny minute that their barrels are never intended to be removed from the action.
Everyone is lawyered up these days, so answers have to be correct. So, my advise to anyone is take the barrel to a gunsmith, have him install the new barrel, check/adjust headspace properly.
I have only shot a hand full of factory loads in my life, and those were in other people's rifles.
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AWS
Custom Accessory Maker & Retired PM Staff
I've done it, but I have my own head space gauges. Their are differences in actions and recoil lugs. I have a Rem 722 that I have three barrels fitted to it. The factory original 300 Sav. A 22-250 heavy Rem 700 factory barrel , good fit after I surface ground the recoil lug slightly thinner(same as turning shoulder). It also has a Rem 700 LVSF 22-250 barrel on it and the distance from the bolt face to the barrel is very near max but the Head spacing is still too short, it will chamber some factory loads but others are tight(it will close on them), I need to rent a chamber reamer and fix it but I can get away with thinning a shell holder enough to set the shoulder back to fit. I have in big letters "Short" written on the right behind the safety and shell boxes for the gun are marked "Short" also and I keep the short shell holder (Dyed Red) in the cartridge box.
They work good, I shot the heavy barrel at the egg shoot one year, put five rounds in a perfect small group in the board under the egg, Oh Well I can't blame that on the barrel. The LVSF barrel has accounted for a number of coyotes.
They work good, I shot the heavy barrel at the egg shoot one year, put five rounds in a perfect small group in the board under the egg, Oh Well I can't blame that on the barrel. The LVSF barrel has accounted for a number of coyotes.
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Tracker0721
New member
Headspace is a matter of .004”. We’ve got 30 guys in the shop all chambering factory new actions for fresh shilens and guys have had headspace differences of -.002 to .003 due to the differences in bolts, actions, and lugs. So now consider the tolerances permitted on the factory floor and how one could be high side and the other low side. Luckily it’s too easy to torque on a barrel and throw in some gauges.
Tracker0721
New member
So headspace is pretty much the length of your chamber. Too short and your bolt won’t close because the cartridge is holding it back, too long and there will be too much room for the round so when it fires the brass expands out and if it’s got enough room the tiny explosion could be catastrophic to the gun or you. Also it’ll put your factory ammo set too far back from the throat and rifling. Imagine a semi hitting an over pass that’s too low and all that force pushing it can only go back or out now. No bueno. Hence why tolerance for headspace is on 0.004 of an inch from bolt closing on the round to the chamber being too long.
Now everything has tolerances, headspace is .004” but most other lengths on the barrel threads are +-.003”. So that’s the length of the threads, the relief cut, the angle, etc. So one thread might be cut to -.097 and the other -.103 and both are still in tolerance but headspace on one would tighten down .006 more on one and be .006 too loose on the other.
All the measurements to determine the correct cut lengths for a barrel come off the action and the bolt so if you get a upgraded bolt from PTG it might be thicker which means it’ll push the cartridge in more and then you’re too tight on headspace. Same with switching Remington 700 lugs, my buddies swapped and suddenly his gun blew headspace checks because the lug was thicker.
I’ve started just slowly buying more headspace gauges, I like PTG the most, but if you want a cheap rental then 4D reamers carries about everything and does headspace rentals.
And yes every time you take a barrel off and put it back on it tightens down more. And the force used tightens it down more too. We do barrels to 35 ft-lbs and one guy took his to 60/70 ft-lbs just so he had a perfect tight chamber. Though if he just listened to Ackley man and fireformed his brass and then used only neck sizing dies and reloaded he wouldn’t need that.
Now everything has tolerances, headspace is .004” but most other lengths on the barrel threads are +-.003”. So that’s the length of the threads, the relief cut, the angle, etc. So one thread might be cut to -.097 and the other -.103 and both are still in tolerance but headspace on one would tighten down .006 more on one and be .006 too loose on the other.
All the measurements to determine the correct cut lengths for a barrel come off the action and the bolt so if you get a upgraded bolt from PTG it might be thicker which means it’ll push the cartridge in more and then you’re too tight on headspace. Same with switching Remington 700 lugs, my buddies swapped and suddenly his gun blew headspace checks because the lug was thicker.
I’ve started just slowly buying more headspace gauges, I like PTG the most, but if you want a cheap rental then 4D reamers carries about everything and does headspace rentals.
And yes every time you take a barrel off and put it back on it tightens down more. And the force used tightens it down more too. We do barrels to 35 ft-lbs and one guy took his to 60/70 ft-lbs just so he had a perfect tight chamber. Though if he just listened to Ackley man and fireformed his brass and then used only neck sizing dies and reloaded he wouldn’t need that.
I've done a few swaps like that. Here's a write up I did on one of them:
.20 Dasher Mongrel build part 1.
It's long, in four parts, but it does go over the process and what to check and ways to do it without using any gauges. Besides swapping a few barrels onto factory 700's, I've replaced barrels on some Savages and several custom actions and have never felt any need for head space gauges. Nothing wrong with using them, but if you don't have them, it's not hard to get the measurements needed without. Fitting for a particular lot of brass, anyway.
- DAA
.20 Dasher Mongrel build part 1.
It's long, in four parts, but it does go over the process and what to check and ways to do it without using any gauges. Besides swapping a few barrels onto factory 700's, I've replaced barrels on some Savages and several custom actions and have never felt any need for head space gauges. Nothing wrong with using them, but if you don't have them, it's not hard to get the measurements needed without. Fitting for a particular lot of brass, anyway.
- DAA
Originally Posted By: zr600Ok if I was to buy a barrel from a different action that’s already threaded shouldered and chambered can it just be threaded on to my action and it should be good? Or would I have to take it to a smith to have it re head spaced?
Depends on the gun. What brand rifle are you talking about????? At the very minimum headspace and a few other dimensions need to be verified. Sometimes a barrel machined for one action can and will screw right onto another and work just fine. Many times not. One thing not mentioned on this thread so far is breech to bolt face clearance. There are some brands that more often than not, can be screwed right on and others that are just about a given you will need some gunsmith work done. Bottomline, don't count on it. PM sent.
Depends on the gun. What brand rifle are you talking about????? At the very minimum headspace and a few other dimensions need to be verified. Sometimes a barrel machined for one action can and will screw right onto another and work just fine. Many times not. One thing not mentioned on this thread so far is breech to bolt face clearance. There are some brands that more often than not, can be screwed right on and others that are just about a given you will need some gunsmith work done. Bottomline, don't count on it. PM sent.
spotstalkshoot
Well-known member
I had a Rem 22-250 700 adl that I bought new(cheap) in the late 90's. Once fired brass out of the factory chamber would spring back after fl sizing and not fit the chamber(other rifles)they were sized for. My gunsmith found the far over saami chamber when he screwed on a new take off barrel I had run across. The new take off(Rem ss fluted 22-250) screwed on and headspaced with the factory barrel stamp in the factory position. And shot very well, even the old reloads(original new brass loads) that I had tried in the original barrel and never got around to pulling. Sometimes you can get very lucky on a barrel swap.
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I will say it again, Remington barrels will often interchange with a slight decrease in headspace, but you have to know how to check it or take it to a gunsmith and have them check it. Savage and Rem 783 barrels headspace with a barrel nut.
This is not the kind of thing that a novice should be doing without hands on help, in the very least.
I have never seen a Ruger, Winchester, or Sako barrel exchange without major issues.
This is not the kind of thing that a novice should be doing without hands on help, in the very least.
I have never seen a Ruger, Winchester, or Sako barrel exchange without major issues.
Originally Posted By: ackleyman.......This is not the kind of thing that a novice should be doing without hands on help, in the very least......
Yep, and getting or having the knowledge is half the battle...it's really not rocket science to barrel an action. Getting or having access to the equipment to properly do the swap can be for most folks the biggest challenge. When it comes to removing and reinstalling barrels a headspace gauge is the last of your worries and also probably the least expensive.
Yep, and getting or having the knowledge is half the battle...it's really not rocket science to barrel an action. Getting or having access to the equipment to properly do the swap can be for most folks the biggest challenge. When it comes to removing and reinstalling barrels a headspace gauge is the last of your worries and also probably the least expensive.