Question for you pistol guys

Predator257Roy

Predator257Roy

New member
Just got off the phone with my mother and she was saying that she was thinking of "upgrading" her carry piece. She is 59 and lives in the mountains of Colorado. Very active and always outside hiking, snow shoeing, and on search and rescue. She carries a S&W 38 special. She has the possibilitiy of running into bears and frequently sees mountain lion tracks in the woods by the house. She is looking for something that is semi auto,lighter, mid-size and can penatrate and drop black bears or couger if need be. I carry a 45 and that's great for dropping a person but I don't think it's got enough velocity to penetrate a bear. Any Ideas? .357 SIG? I've heard it and the 40 have more "pop". Just not real familiar with pistols, I like the long range stuff. Should she stick with a revolver in a .357 or something? Just don't know. what do you think?

Thanks

Bobby
 
I went through about 6 different handguns for my wife over the years.All revolvers.Never even brought up a semi.One day a local sporting goods store had a new glock 27 in the case.I asked my wife and she said I want to look at it and what do you mean I wouln't want a semi auto LOL Anyway she looked,liked and we bought.She has very small hands like a kid too LOL I do have to pull back the slide for her though.
 
Roy, Depending on her hand size and comfort level with recoil, a Glock 29 (compact 10mm) is an ideal self defense semi-auto...and has a bunch of punch on the down range end..

The recoil is fairly sharp until the shooter gets used to it..If she is not very strong (as the recoil spring is pretty heavy), then I'd strongly suggest moving up to a .357 revolver, with some 'penetration' loads...for instance the Speer Lawman series 158gr soft points...I've shattered concrete blocks in demonstrations with them..
 
If you go to a more powerful caliber, stick to a heavier gun. Less felt recoil. If the 38 is +P rated, then you could get some Corbon ammo. That's hard hitting stuff. My wife shoots one of my revolvers, it's a S&W Model 13. She can handle full throttle 357 loads in it. She tried out a small framed 38 and it had too much recoil with 38's. 45 ACP 1911 clone would be hard to beat if she can rack the slide.
 
Best that she goes out and try several before buying. Maybe a Ruger KGP 100 stainless 4" 357mag. A little more weight will help with recoil of higher power loads. I have the Ruger SPS 2-1/2" five shot 357mag. Recoil is rather stiff with full house 357mag. loads.
 
Roy i wouldnt be afraid at all on carry the .45 i would think that it would do the trick for close work rather well, as stated above the glock 10mm would be a good choice if the recoil wouldnt be to much the 10mm is a right nasty piece Ron
 
A 45 would be a world of difference from the 38. Even +P stuff. I carry my 44 mag. My wife shoots it often and loves shooting it. Even with my HOT reloads. The gun is a little heavy, I attach it to my waist strap of my pack to make it easier. I WOULD NOT trust my life to a 38 spl, or even a 357 for that matter. 45 ACP, 41 RemMag, 10 mm Auto, 44 Mag. Get her a mid frame Kimber in 45 and never look back.
 
She would be better with the .38 than a .357 sig. Try a .357 mag with a 4" barrel. I have shot this Ruger It isn't bad on recoil, and reasonably priced. My wife shoots my 6" Colt all the time. Or just a good old .45
 
Velocity and penetration dont go together..

Velocity works against penetration in other words.

The faster something hits, the more the bullet breaks up. THe slower something hits, the more it stays together and penetrates.

I'd say go with a compact 45 as well.
 
A guy I know has shot A LOT of black bears with rifles and bows. He always carried a 357 mag for protection/back up just in case when he was using his bow.

He decided he wanted to kill a black bear with the 357. He spotted one and got off the trail about 20-30 yards and waited for it to pass along. He hunts on his own land and knows the bears very well. Bout an hour later the bear came right along the trail he was sitting off, he emptied that 6 shot 357 on that black bear. Make a long story short, he never found that bear. Take it for what its worth, needless to say, he carries a 44 now...

Now Im not exactly what sure of bullets he was using, that can make all the difference in the world, but you know that at least a few of them 357s were put in the right spot, at least the first one, didn't matter.
 
Velocity and penetration dont go together..

Velocity works against penetration in other words.


I don't know how things like this gets started. There is more to bullet breakup than just velocity. A good cast bullet will go through just about anything without breaking up. A good JSP will also blast through most anything, reguardless of velocity. Besides you need velocity or the bullet is just a paper weight.
I would recomend a good .44 special. The S&W 396 Night Guard would be a good start for a new gun. Or there are a number of used ones on the market. With the .44 special you could use hollow point for defence against people or a cast bullet for roaming the back 40. I am pretty fond of a stainles Taurus 431 .44 special, it is presently my #1 carry gun for both social and back country outings.

Mike
 
Cast bullets are different, ur right. We weren't talking specifics but since you brought it up.

I dont shoot cast bullets, so I dont really know to much about them. I do know they penetrate a lot. I'd rather have expansion and penetration, so cast bullets are useless for me.

With rifle bullets take a 30 cal 180g NP and shoot it out of a 30-06 at 2700 and a 300 RUM at 3300. Guaruntee the 30-06 penetrates further every time. Just the way it is.

Higher velocity breaks them up more, which in turn means less weight, which equals less penetration. Its not rocket science.

Why you think barnes x bullets penetrate so deep? Its because they hold all there weight.

Tell me I'm wrong...

Pretty simple really...
 
Handgun bullets don't reach the kinds of velocity that rifle bullets do... So, their performance (penetration and "mushrooming") are more critical and also less predictable in the effect of material and design in gaining penetration and maintaining bullet integrity. (It is difficult, not impossible, to design a handgun bullet that will have reliable and predictable expansion in most instances and still get good bullet integrity.) Therefore stay with what is a "known to work" combination, large caliber in a reliable platform. Don't hope for a .357 diameter bullet to "open up" to .40+ to generate a larger wound canal. Start with a .40+ bullet! The advice of using a good .44SPL +P as a starting point is excellent.

Finally, remember, in a defensive situation with a PO'd bear (even a cute little Black Bear...LIKE THERE IS SUCH A THING) a good .50 Cal machine gun will seem just barely adequate at the time. So, pack as much handgun as you can, period.
 
My sidearm for many years was a .44spl or a .41 mag, and they worked well in bear country. My current side arm is a s/w m&p compact in .40 with a full size m&p mag, (15rds) in .40. It works very well and for a .40 doesn't have much recoil at all, remember you can change the springs if need be to change the percieved recoil.

The changable backstrap on the pistol means it will fit anybody and one of the last tests i read was 36,000 rds. without a hiccup. I have right at a 1000 through mine without a problem. They are going for around $500 at this time, so the price is right. blue
 
I seen this post reguarding maybe a bear so first off I'd get a revolver over the semi-auto and would be a 357 magnum loaded with Buffalo Bore or Garret Ammunition. The 357 magnum has put down all game animals in the North America. 357 magnum would be more reliable than a 10mm in an auto because if your in the mud or worse it will work and the autos can and will jam on occassion. Not picking on the 45 but they have a saying about 45 and smaller in bear country, "File the front sight off to make it easier on you when he shoves it up you azz." not saying you can't make a good hit and get lucky with smaller calibers. You don't want an expansion bullet for bear but one that penetrates through bone in order to reach the vitals. If I was hiking in bear country and there was that 1% chance of running into a black bear that could be over 400 pounds I would want the right caliber with the right ammunition to raise my odds for survival if he don't run away. You can buy any caliber you want but do some research on bears before you buy a handgun since bear is your biggest threat. Not trying to change anyones mind on calibers but bear attacks happen every year and you can get the information through your DNR or Game Department and see what has worked in the past and what hasn't.
 
Depending on the circumstance and the kind of bear, even with a 44 Magnum revolver, you might want to shoot the bear 5 times and then yourself once... If you still can....

-BCB
 
My woods gun is a Glock 33 in .357 Sig. I use a 15 round G31 mag with the mag filler attached to have extra ammo and fullsize grip. I think it offers the best power to capacity to weight to size ratio. I swap out the big mag for the 10 rounder if I feel the need to go the concealment route. 15 rounds of 357 Sig trumps 6 rounds of 44 mag IMHO.
 
I'll try to help without writing a book.
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All handgun ammo is manufactured to penetrate between 8" and 14" due to all the research done for LEO and FBI. Yes, a good top of the line 9mm is going to penetrate the same as a good top of the line 45 APC.

You do have options but you need to understand how bullets work. Penetration is the inverse of killing power. If you choose bullets that penetrate they need to be well placed and expect them to take a fwe seconds longer to perform their duties. The best in class will kill something in less than 3 seconds where some ball or lead cast loads can take two or three minutes even if they are well placed.

I looked up 45 ACP loads the other day for someone that had the same question. The 45 ACP FMJ load penetates 27" while the same caliber using hard cast lead found only one load that penetrated 24" the rest not as much. Also be aware hard projectile are more likely to deflect. With HP or soft nose bullets the nose deforms to the shape of the hard objest and the base drives it thru. Hard nose projectile don't deform ver well and can glance off and the angle of the nose and angle of the shot.

Believe it or not the 9MM 147gr ball (fmj) load out penetrated ever other load fired from any (yest any) other caliber. Killing something with it might be tricky though.
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I think the recored is something like 27 shots with the person still living.

The 44Mag or larger caliber would be a good option if she can shoot it well. Otherwise I'd go with the 45 ACP and either ball loads or something like the Ranger/Talon load. It performs more like a LSWC than HP.
 
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