recommendations on gen 1 night vision scope???

Y

YoteNinja

New member
Hey guys. I just joined up with you guys and have decided to start hunting at night since that's the only time I ever have any contact with animals in my area. Way to much cover for them and they absolutely will not show even in the edges of a field.
Can anyone recommend a good mid range night vision scope for a .223? I am kinda on a budget, but would still like to get a decent scope. Would I be wasting time and money with a gen 1? Any suggestions would be helpful.
 
Do research on the armasight vampire, from casual reading I saw folks saying it performs above its price point.

You could give digital nv a look.

If the animals are staying in cover it doesn't matter how good your scope is as the density of brush will either reflect your it light back or will reduce the ambient light making it difficult to peer into wood lines.

Good luck feel free to ask questions after you research above
 
Maybe look into one of the digitals.

FWIW, I just bought a second hand Photon XT to try. First impression after looking through it Saturday night was that it is pretty good and would work fine from a blind or fixed position, even without something else to scan with.

I have seen second hand asking prices at or a little below $500.

If you Google "Photon XT video" you will find a bunch of youtube videos showing what the Photon can do.

Other options would be second hand Pulsar D550 and D750 digital NV scopes. The D750 is supposed to provide a better view than the Photon.

JPK
 
Thanks for the info guys.
By the way, I have no problems calling the animals in to clear shooting range after night fall. Day time is a totally different story. I've been calling for a few years now and while I'm no expert, I'm certainly no novice. The animals here are just strictly nocturnal. So, I've decided to turn the lights on for them.
 
Originally Posted By: BennyboneDo research on the armasight vampire, from casual reading I saw folks saying it performs above its price point.

You could give digital nv a look.

If the animals are staying in cover it doesn't matter how good your scope is as the density of brush will either reflect your it light back or will reduce the ambient light making it difficult to peer into wood lines.

Good luck feel free to ask questions after you research above

We are currently giving the Armasight Vampire our normal due diligence and field tests. Reviews from individuals who have purchased these from other dealers are all very positive. It is not a traditional Gen 1 device, but uses what is known as CORE technology. That stands for Ceramic Optical Ruggedized Engine that is supposed to double the resolution of a typical Gen 1 device. The resolution is advertised at 60 to 70 lp/mm which is about that of a Gen 3 device. We have tested it here in IL under optimal light conditions (snow cover with moon) and it is very good as would be expected under those conditions. We still need to review it under poor ambient light conditions and determine how well it will react to IR assistance from our T-20. If it passes our muster we will be selling it on our website in 2 or 3 weeks. At this point it looks like we will retail it for around 700 with an optional IR device for a tad over 800. This scope looks very promising so far for beginners or budget minded consumers. Kevin
 
My hunting partner is running a armasight vampire and has been a great scope for him. He is running the t20 irlight that Kevin from HTRN mentioned and sells. I Don't have a lot of time behind different nightvision setups so I am looking forward to what Kevin has to say in his review.
 
Originally Posted By: YoteNinja I am kinda on a budget, but would still like to get a decent scope. Would I be wasting time and money with a gen 1? Any suggestions would be helpful.

A lot of us have owned a Gen 1 scope.......ONCE. I would go digital with one of the Pulsar N750 type units or try for a Gen 2. If you buy a Gen 1 try to purchase from a dealer that will take it back if you are not satisfied with it. You might want to keep the box and the receipt.....you will most likely use them.





 
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It doesn't take like long to realize the limitations of Gen 1. I still have my first NV device, a Gen 1 Night Owl monocular.
I think by far the biggest advancement in NV technology was the jump from Gen 1 to Gen 2.
 
Probably the largest advancement in technology to come along that is allowing for use of the lower end Gen 1 or digital NV is in IR illumination. I purchased a Gen1 binocular (I think it was Bushnell) in early 2000ish and it had a built in IR illuminator on it. At that time I didn't have a clue about how NV worked and that particular unit was ok in the house but once outside it was good for about 20 yards. I returned it and had to pay a hefty restocking charge of around $150.00. The T-20 IR in 850nm on the same unit would probably make it good out to 250 or 300 yards. You would be limited to the IR spotlight generated by the T-20 but that gives you a pretty decent FOV out at that range. So.....outfitting the Gen 1 devices with the more powerful IR devices available today does make them useable for hunting purposes as long as the resolution is good enough to allow for positive ID. As I noted above, the Armasight Vampire is using a Gen 1 tube with CORE technology that shows an advertised resolution of 60 to 70 lp/mm which is in the range of a Gen 3 device. Granted the resolution is measured dead center in the tube and Gen 1 devices do have a fish-eye affect (lower resolution as you go outward from center). So far on the Vampire the resolution where the cross hairs are is pretty darn good IMO for Gen 1. More to come as the moon goes away and the snow melts. Hopefully will have a field report in another week or two. Kevin
 
I can agree with this estimation. I have a gen monocular that I've had for about 3 years. It's good for about 40 yards with the stock illuminator. I recently bought a T20 IR torch and this stretches my monocular out to 200 yards easy. It's still Gen 1 with some fish eye but I can clearly see what I'm looking at at that distance with the new torch.
 
Originally Posted By: Pastor12Can you use any of the IR illuminators-810, 850, 940 with the Gen 1 scopes?
Dennis
A 940nm light is about useless with GEN 1. 810nm or 850nm can work well if it produces enough radiant flux. For GEN 1 I would look for a IR light that produces at least 900mW.
 
Originally Posted By: Pastor12Can you use any of the IR illuminators-810, 850, 940 with the Gen 1 scopes?
Dennis

You could use all of them for Gen 1 but the performance would depend upon the power output of the device in combination with the wavelength. For example, I have an IRK2 ELR in 805nm operating at 350mw of power that has about the same range as the T-20 IR in 940nm operating at 1070mw of power. Magnification optics that allow for a really tight zoom can also produce superior illumination performance even though they may be using less power. All that said, for Gen 1 devices more illumination is generally best due to their limited range. Thus, I would focus on the lower nm wavelengths (800nm to 850nm) with higher power ratings. There are plenty of opinions on this forum to give you an idea of which ones perform the best. Kevin
 
As usual, Kevin is guilty of giving very good advice. I don't know what Gen1 and Gen2 night vision see best, but Gen3 sees in the range of 750 to 850 nm best. It took me a while to get it through my head, but there is absolutely no reason to use anything over 850 nm. Even with digital the higher nm rated IR sources are not effective. I'd rather take a chance on the target animal seeing a small emission from a light source than not seeing the animal with the higher nm light source.
 

I have only used one Gen 1 scope, an ATN Spartan 410. I used it over the course of two or three seasons, mainly at a 60 yard bait site. I tried various illuminators, but the LLTL-001 worked the best of all of them. It operates at 850nm and compares to the T-20 at the brightest setting. I could shoot well enough with it at 60 to perhaps 100 yards, but 100 would be stretching it.

One thing about a Gen 1 scope, specifically for bait site hunting, is that it can be made to work very well with proper lighting. If hunting hogs or coyotes over bait, you can use DC powered 850nm IR lights that will turn the area into daylight, making shooting very easy. As well, a trail camera or two set up at a bait site will provide all the illumination a guy needs for some great shooting. I took 6 coyotes with a Gen 1 scope at my 60 yard site using trail cameras and DC powered IR lights, with no other illuminator. Of course, if the animals move outside that area, the Gen 1 isn't very useful without a good illuminator, but a strong illuminator can help you get back on your target up to a certain range, maybe 100 yards.

As Kevin mentioned, today's new illuminators are really helping the Gen 1. As well, I'm anxious, for knowledge sake, to hear his review of the new Armasight Vampire Gen 1.

 

A 940nm light is about useless with GEN 1. 810nm or 850nm can work well if it produces enough radiant flux. For GEN 1 I would look for a IR light that produces at least 900mW. [/quote]

Thanks, any suggestions on brand?
 
Originally Posted By: Pastor12
A 940nm light is about useless with GEN 1. 810nm or 850nm can work well if it produces enough radiant flux. For GEN 1 I would look for a IR light that produces at least 900mW.

Thanks, any suggestions on brand?
The T20 seems to be the light of choice for most people.
 
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