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ndindy, true enough. i guess we just disagree at where the breaking point is as far as where the minimum quality price point is. or maybe i just add a few more dollars to a purchase as a buffer. i just don't want a fellow pm member to waste money on a couple cheap scopes that fail when they could get one good one to count on for years of good service. i've never regreted the extra time for saving a little more for decent scope. more than once i've bought what i could afford at the moment and been disappointed.