reduced loads

TripleDeuce660

TripleDeuce660

Active member
I might have a space finaly to start reloading.

I am wondering what sort of reduced loads can be used in a .223 1:8. They made it Illegal to shoot coyote with rimfire in ca this year. I got caught with my pants down when a huge dog crossed me inside 50 yards and I just had a rimfire with me. So I am thinking about some reduced power loads for headshooting cottontails and blowing up jacks. Maybe a 36 gr or 40 gr to keep a decent trajectory. When is the accuracy likely to suffer?

I know the .222 rem can go down to about 22mag levels not sure about .223.

The .223 with 55gr sp is perfect for jacks. When it expands it is explosive.
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If it doesn't expand like this one it really isn't too much damage.

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Cottontails are fine with a headshot which I can do to about 200 yards. If you hit the body it is no bueno. I'm thinking if the load is slow enough it won't expand so violently. We have to use expanding bullets in CA.

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I had a post on "trail boss" about a month back. It works very well & is "fluff" enough you can't double charge accidentally. Accuracy is plenty good enough
 
Originally Posted By: coleridgeI had a post on "trail boss" about a month back. It works very well & is "fluff" enough you can't double charge accidentally. Accuracy is plenty good enough

I found and read your old post. Sounds like it might be good. Is there any published data? Being new to reloading I am a little scared starting off with anything that isn't tried and tested.

I also saw that you mentioned blue dot. This was interesting to me because Blue Dot was recomended to me for reloading 10mm. Then I could use the same powder for both calibers I would be reloading.
 
that is just what I was looking for!

PERFECT!

I just wish I had a second .223 so I wouldn't have to adjust the scope between coyote and rabbit loads as it like 100 mile drive to go sight in. GUess I should keep an eye out for another t-3 when I start reloading.Or maybe I can just write the number of clicks down I'm guessing my vx-3 will track nicely between loads.

This really will make my 22mag obsolete.

I been playing with the ballistics calculator and 40 gr's at about 2600 fps seems like a sweet spot to me.It is a good 200 yard trajectory. When zero is an inch high at 100 it is 1.5 low at 150 - 8 inches low at 200. So I could hold dead on a rabbit to about 150. The energy is 600 @ the muzzle-290@100 and 195@ 150. That should work very nicely to 150 yards on an incidental dog while rabbit hunting.

The 55 gr load I shoot now when sighted in 1 inch high at 100 is 8" low at 300. You can hold dead on a rabbit to just past 200.

Seems to make it very easy to remember the two trajectory for both loads.

For some reason the numbers just make good sense to me. Now I need a projectile that will give the right amount of expansion. Idealy it'll stay together on game so it doesn't explode but blow up on a rock as I'm always shooting at the ground often at close range. Obviously I will still have to stick to headshots on the cottontails!

I noticed it says in the link above that blue dot isn't published for .223? I'm 100% positive my uncle reloads blue dot in .222 rem. I saw the targets and he had an article about .222 and blue dot from some magazine that was probably from the 70's or 80's. He got good accuracy from it.
 
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Over the last 10 or so years I have killed many a ground squirrel with 14 grains of Bluedot and 40 grain bullets. I have also used 12 grains of it in my .17 Remington with fine results as well. I keep at least a pound of Bluedot on my shelf all the time partly for handgun loads and partly for reduced rifle loads. If you do the math, 14 grains of powder is good for 500 rounds. That's a lot of .223 shooting for cheap!
 
Originally Posted By: RustydustOver the last 10 or so years I have killed many a ground squirrel with 14 grains of Bluedot and 40 grain bullets. I have also used 12 grains of it in my .17 Remington with fine results as well. I keep at least a pound of Bluedot on my shelf all the time partly for handgun loads and partly for reduced rifle loads. If you do the math, 14 grains of powder is good for 500 rounds. That's a lot of .223 shooting for cheap!

The cost savings should be sweet too. That is totaly perfect for my application because I can really fire alot of rounds in a morning of jack rabbit hunting. 25 rounds is no problem if the jacks are thick. Also I could afford to plink more.

I would probably just continue to buy the hornaday 55gr sp for coyote as its only 22 bucks for 50 rounds and shoots submoa. If I fired 25 rounds at coyote in a year then that would be one heck of a year! I have a couple hundred rounds of it stocked up and I just hate wasting it on silly rabbits!
 
Just be carefull with the blue-dot loads. It is possible to double charge a load (a charge fills up less than half the case volume). The blue dot loads are not low pressure & a double charge exceeds pressure limits (will blow your chit up). However, with good reloading practices it is perfectly safe.

If you want to take a 2nd look at trailboss call Hodgdon. Tech I talked to said it was impossible to have an unsafe amount of trailboss in ANY cartridge. (~ 8gr fills a 223 case slap full!)
 
I don't load my ammo to max normally. To big of holes in Coyotes. But I would not hesitate to shoot a rabbit with my .223 or my 22/250 with full power loads. I don't eat the head so if it vaporizes you have not lost much meat. Stick with head shots only and you can use whatever load you desire. I don't like any load that could possible be doubled charged. Just to dangerous in my opinion. Even my reduced loaded handgun loads I still use a charge that will overflow the case just in case I do a double.
 
so I been reading a bunch and playing with the balistics calculator.

When I adjusted the BC to .155(40 gr. sierra HP) 2600 still looks really good. 2350 or so also looks good. It has even more retained energy and shoots flatter then I was thinking

Looking at a few bullets to try what do you guys think?

Sierra 40 gr HP. People say its tougher then average and it may not expand on a rabbit or coyote. It also tends to ricochet at these lower velocity.

36 gr varmint grenade. I live by the lead ban zone so I could kill two birds with one stone if I developed something lead free.

speer 40 gr spire SP . It is listed as controled expansion and I think that is what i'm looking for.
couldn't find any performance reports.

40 grain vmax or 40 gr sierra hornet. Both of these should fragment on game and not ricochet.

Or maybe as said I should go for maximium expansion and stick to head shots.

are you guys loading any of these with blue dot? It is just hard to know what these loads would do at such a low velocity.

I do recognize the safety issue. I will probably load each one individualy and then weigh it before seating the bullet.


How far off will the zero probably be? a couple inches? Or not even on the paper?

 
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TripleDeuce660,

I see you already had some suggestions on "reduced loads." Let me throw in my 2 cents just to err on the side of caution. I have a good friend who lives in Rialto whose been reloading for some 40 years+ and shoots regularly at the West End Gun Club in Lytle Creek. There we got a chance to see an unfortunate situation where he was testing "reduced loads" in a relatively new but broken in Savage very similar to your's in .223. Things started off ok when he was around 10% below minimum recommended in the Reloading Manual. He then got cute and dropped to 25% below the minimum recommended load and the darn rifle exploded when he pulled the trigger. The wooden stock literally splintered and I couldn't believe the devistation that occurred. I mean the bolt face was even dinged and the firing pin bent. The remains were sent back to Savage for their examination and it was their opinion that the reduced load allowed for gases to build up rapidly inside the casing because of the emptied space that is usually filled with gunpowder that denotates, thus the explosion. Prior to the explosion, the rifle shot normally and no problems after 500 rds.

My point is simply that be careful when you get into reduced loads. They can be as dangerous as "hot loads". Savings money in reduced loads doesn't always work well. Just be careful and don't get crazy. Good luck and have fun.
 
stick with powders designed for the job , Accurate 5744 is one. Email
them and they will send you loads if what you want is not listed.
 
I have still been looking. Watched alot of you tube videos and I understand the whole process pretty well now. Found more info on reduced loads. The trail boss really looks good. Seems to be alot of options to achieve hornet velocity or similar.

Not sure what the point of using bluedot is when there are already alot of loads in the manuals?
 
Hodgdon has Trail Boss loads for the popular calibers online, and sometimes a couple for other fast "pistol/shotgun" powders (Titegroup and Clays in 223). If you look into the IMR powders, (also owned by Hodgdon now), SR 4759 and SR 4756 used to be listed in the old Speer reloading manuals for reduced loads. As mentioned above, AA 5744 is commonly used for reduced loads, and listed in their info. I know the Richard Lee Reloading Manual has a bunch of reduced loads listed also.

I'm going to be trying the Hodgdon powders out, and the Trailboss seems to be tops on my list due to the case-filling properties of it. I do also have 5744 and some of the reduced IMR powders around here somewhere too.
 
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