Reloading 223 for an AR

cm250

New member
Question,I have a Lee 223 Remington reloading die kit, part # 90502. Can I use this to reload rounds for my DPMS chambered in 223? Was talking to our machinist at work and he said I need one that specifically states "small base". Claims that if it is not a small base die,the cases may be swelled and without the extra crimp of the small base die they may hang up in the AR chamber. Thought this would be the best place to get an answer to my question.
Thanks
Tony
 
Your good!

Small base dies should only be used if needed in a real tight chamber. Most dont crimp either.

I use the same die and have never had a chambering issue.


Dave
 
I think you will find that most folks are Not using small base dies and doing just fine without them in AR's.Your dies will be fine.
 
Semi's need to have a cartridge that chambers easily. Small base dies return the brass back to the orginal size. It all depends if your AR has a tight chamber or a lose chamber and if your dies are made to min or maximum sammi specs. RCBS makes a special small base die. Dillon Precision doesn't specifically state it, but if you call them they will tell you their dies are small base too. The reason being they market reloading eq to machine gun owners that require small base dies. I reload for several ARs, and I use Hornady dies without a hitch. I called Hornady and they said you usually won't have a problem with their dies because they ream them to .001" of SAAMI Min. Please note they said "usually wont have a problem." I've found this to be very true. As long as your dies say Full Length or FL, I would go ahead and just try them. You probably will be fine. If some rounds don't go into full battery, try another magazine. If they still don't go into battery, borrow a small base die from someone and try it out.

BTW: DPMS shows rifles with both .223 and 5.56x45 chamberings. While both the 223 and 5.56 cartridges are the same in external deminsions, they are not loaded the same. 223s are loaded to saami specs and 5.56 are loaded to Nato specs. Basically the 223s have a chamber which uses a tighter reamer and 5.56 have a loser reamer. I'm sure the 5.56 are have longer throats, and I also believe the chamber is a little bigger on the 5.56s to allow for consistent chambering of the round. This would be an important issue in combat. If this isn't confusing enough, the military uses pressure readings from the bolt face instead of the front of the chamber like saami. So you have two different measurement points,it is like comparing apples to oranges. It has been published that it is perfectly safe to use 223 in 223s and 5.56 chambered guns. However, it isn't safe to use 5.56 in 223 chambered guns. In 223 chambered guns you should only use 223. The 5.56s are loaded a little hotter, and are unsafe to use in 223s. The 5.56s keep the pressures down to safe levels because of the larger chambers and longer throats.

How do you tell if your gun is a 5.56 or 223, look on the barrel. It should be stamped on there as one of the two chamberings. There are also some variant chamberings like the Wylde chamber which allow for using the 5.56 bullet while still retaining the accuracy of the 223. I have one AR chambered in 5.56 and it shoots sub moa all day long.

The reason for this long post is if your gun is a 5.56, it probably has a loose chamber and your dies will more likely work fine. If your gun is chambered in 223, they probably will still work just fine. It is just a little more likely you may have problems.

Hope this helps

Now go take some aspirin and start reloading
 
Unless you are reloading brass that has been fired in a machinegun, the only thing small base dies will accomplish is premature case head separation due to overworking your brass. Machineguns typically have very sloppy chambers to allow for dirty ammo to chamber freely under combat conditions.

The myth that SB dies are necessary when loading for gas guns has been around for years. The only other time a normal FL die might not resize sufficiently would be if your rifle had an extremely tight chamber and the brass being reloaded had been fired in a large chamber.

Regards,
hm
 
"However, it isn't safe to use 5.56 in 223 chambered guns. In 223 chambered guns you should only use 223. The 5.56s are loaded a little hotter, and are unsafe to use in 223s. The 5.56s keep the pressures down to safe levels because of the larger chambers and longer throats."

The fact that 100s of millions of rounds are shot interchangeably every year raises the BS flag really high.

Jack
 
"Military M16s have slightly more headspace and have a longer throat area, compared to the SAAMI .223 chamber spec, which was originally designed for bolt-action rifles. Commercial SAAMI-specification .223 chambers have a much shorter throat or leade and less freebore than the military chamber. Shooting 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo in a SAAMI-specification chamber can increase pressure dramatically, up to an additional 15,000 psi or more."

http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm
 
Jack is 100 percent correct.

Even though the dimensions are not the same the ammo still functions well in both NATO and SAAMI spec chambers. There is way too much BS floating around about what ammo to use in the AR15. Jack has fired probably 100's of thousands of rounds thru too many different AR's as well as several other members here and none of us have lost an eye yet. This question has been asked here many, many times and even though there are those that continue to bring up the slight differnces, we all have found that shooting NATO ammo in a 223 chamber somehow just simply works.

BTW, there is no need for small base dies either.
 
cm250, I've been using a regular Lee full length resizing die for the last 20+ years and it has always worked fine for me on a bunch of different ARs. I think you are good to go.

Good hunting
 
your regular dies will work fine.

you don't need a small base die.

Just make sure you are full lenght resizing and you'll be good to go.
 
GET A WILSON CASE GAUGE AND YOU WONT HAVE ANY PROBLUMS.I JUST STARTED RELOADING FOR MY AR AND HAVE NOT HAD A SINGLE ONE NOT CHAMBER.HOPE THIS HELPS.
 
You guys are probably right about "getting away with..." using 5.56 in 223, but I don't want to be the one in ten thousand statistic. For your information, here is a link to sammi that list all of the unsafe combos. You will have to scroll about halfway down the list because it is fairly long and not sorted by caliber or size. This page does list on the left column(in this caliber) 223 Rem, and in the right column(do not use) 5.56 Military.
 
Hundreds of millions of rounds shot interchangeably every year without any reported trouble is a pretty good argument that they are interchangeable. A lot of ammo is even labeled
with both designations.

Jack
 
Quote:
Hundreds of millions of rounds shot interchangeably every year without any reported trouble is a pretty good argument that they are interchangeable. A lot of ammo is even labeled
with both designations.

Jack



What Jack said!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 


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