scat?

nightwatchman

nightwatchman

New member
i tried calling last night because i had been finding alot of scat close to the house in one of the pasture fields close to a pond. i figured that with it being so dry that they were coming in close to the pond and hunting the rabbits at the same time. ive been finding small black piles of scat with small berries in it and i assumed that it was fox. but this evening while running my beagles i found a fresh pile of scat that looked like it was too big to be a fox and had hair all in it and large berries but the color of the scat was almost grey and it was still moist. and what i couldnt understand was that i had just tried calling this spot at 10 oclock last night. is my assumption right that that pile was a coyote or could it of been something else ? i drove up the gravel road this morning for about 5 miles and i probably counted a dozen different piles of scat on the road side all the way up the road. i didnt think that oppossum or skunk would leave scat that size so i assumed that it was fox. can anyone tell me if im right in this assumption and what i could do to call this critter in since im not having any luck with the coaxer.
 
Large piles like you described are coyote scats. Fox scats are about half that size and look very similar. The places you will find them both are the same although a fox usually won't do it's thing in a highway but the coyote will every time he crosses it. That gray color you describe is rabbit under fur. Mice show up in bits of hair and tiny bones . The seeds may be wild grape or persimmon right now. The smaller round seeds are grapes. Both species love wild grapes.

A moist scat at this time of year was likely laid in the last sixteen hours or so. If it still shines and is very soft it was laid within the last three hours. Scats and tracks can give you a fair guess at the time they are traveling through an area with practice and learning what to look for.

Even tracks in dust can give you a clue as too the time they were made. If the track has a very sharp ridge between the toe marks it is within the last hour. As the track crumbles with wind and other things happening these ridge soften. Once you learn the rate at which this happens you can make a pretty good guess.

Tracks in mud are even easier. They have the very sharp ridge but as time moves on the ridge begins to dry before it crumbles. The drier the older it is. If it has already begun to crumble it is 24 hours old.If the track is still wet and no sign of drying it was made within the last hour.An eightth of an inch it was made within the last 6 to 8 hours.A quarter inch of dry rigde and it was made in the last 12 hours. I hope this will help you to figure out the time frame. Jimmie
 
yeah the scat was very moist. and the hair and berries were present. it was large. the scat in the road was smaller though but i found over a dozen piles up the road for atleast a mile stretch. i have called them in right on the road before in that area at night and have heard them but i havent heard them in the last 8 months or so so i figured they had maybe moved on or were killed. so if i would of set up when i found that pile of scat that was super fresh i would of maybe stood a chance of calling him in granted i was doing it right? it was probably only 730 in the evening and i had just tried calling that spot the night before at around 10.
 
Finding sign like that is always good. Thing is it only gives you a part of the animals habit.You now know that particular animal moves through at that time of day and where. Coyote's are not the total creature of habit like man or a deer. It may not be back in that particular spot for a week or it may be there every other day.

Deer hunting and bass fishing are two great comparisons to this sport. If the creature is moving it will move along projectable paths. If it is on these paths it can be taken. The creature is up and openly feeding.When a deer goes to feed it leaves it's bedding area and moves to a place to feed. When that bass comes off that stump it moves along a creek chanel or other breakline to where the baitfish live. Coyote's do the same thing.

Study all the sign you can find along that path the animals have shown you. Try and figure out where they bed and where they are going to feed.Look to see what hollow, ditch, fencerow, woods edge or toher path or breakline they traveled to get from the field where you found the scat to where they cross the road.There is some kind of land feature link from one place to the other.Find the tracks that tell you which direction they are going. An animal traveling in the afternoon is heading for a place to feed.Look along the backtrail for the thicket or heavy timber it bedded in. Make a couple of guesses for the feeder field and the bedding area and go check them for signs as well. Once you've done this you can see the links they use to travel from one place to the other.

Once you learn to recognize travel lanes you can spot them anywhere. This is the key to hunting coyote's.If you are on it's travel path it will hear the calls sooner or later amd come in.

As for hearing them howl during the summer months, It's not unusual to not hear a group for a long period. I've been waiting for four months to hear one of my local groups so I could get a head count. A farmer harvested the corn field and they suddenly start screaming at the same time each night. There are only five in that group this season.Hearing that old male start it off was sweet music to my ears. Jimmie
 
Jimmie,
What time of the year do you start to hear them howl in your area? I'm in the Ark. farm belt near the Miss.River and very seldom ever hear them call on my local WMA and have heard them only once over on the river areas. They seem to be very quiet around here. Do you do any howling??
 
Thats something I don't understand myself. One year they never shut up and the next you couldn't pry a song out of them with a crowbar.All but one fo my groups I study and keep up with have been vocal off and on all summer. Night before last was the first time I had heard the northwest group since april.Last year all five groups sang at sunset from the time the pups first came out of the den to play til this past april. Since then it's been off and on. Did the same thing year before last as well, off and on. The north west group and the southeast group have been headed up by the same males for at least three years. These are two well experienced old dogs. Each male has a distinctive howl. The south east male uses a single bark followed by an imediate howl, wah-arooooooo. Long ,mournful and deep like a wolf. The northwest male uses two barks and a medium length howl.Sounds like where- where areyouuuu.These guys are not hard to keep up with once they get into the fall. As the nights get cooler they will become more regular and more like clockwork. After october these two could help you set a watch after ten pm. Each hour on the hour until five am. It is wild when all five groups get close enough together to get a sing along going.

I do use a howler when scouting at night to locate groups in other areas of the county. The lone howl is standard for me when doing this. After december I will use it on occassion to start a set up, first one of the morning and last one of the day.If I get a dominant dog's answer I will return it in kind. Nothing like an old dog coming on the run to kick your butt.

I don't get torn up about not hearing them howl anymore.I know they are there and when they feel like it they will talk to me.Checking them around midnight seems to help . Nearly all of them will howl about that time . It does help me figure out their movements though . Night work tells me where they are feeding . And if my scouting shows me they are moving from here to there , it will confirm what I've already guessed at. Jimmie
 
Question for you Jimmie, and other experienced howler users:

Do you ever use the howler to do the calling without distress calling? I have tried this here in my neck of the woods and have been marginally successful. And this only in morning and evening light hours. I noted Jimmie that you stated using your howl "on occassion to start a set up, first one of the morning and last one of the day". Have you found little success in using it more often?

Thanks,
Matt
 
I like to howl on every set for coyotes. A few howls followed by a minute or two of silence and then give them the puppy squeals.
 
Rich,
Had the first on answer me in a long time last week. Wonder if howling here, because they are so quiet and non-vocal, is a good idea or not. What you think? Huntin'em here is really tough. We have no night hunting and they have adapted well with the sleep all day stay out all night kinda thing. Around my local area we have river levi's and lots of crop ditches for them to travel unseen to scattered wood lots and timbered tree lines. Plenty of rice, cotton, and soybean fields for them to feed in. I would like to see them hold a world calling contest around here. That would be a really good one. If you killed something, you would truly be good!! LOL!!
 
I pretty well stick with what I've heard local animals do. A howl more than thirty minutes after sunrise or before thirty minutes before sunset is almost unheard around here. The one time they howl earlier is one searching for a mate. I've used that to get in front of one to call it before.I've heard Rich and several others on the other side of the river say they hear howls at different times of day. I just haven't heard them here.

I have often ,during the breeding and whelping season ,used just the howler alone. That is when it seems to be most productive for me. When I use it later in the day I have them pop up on a hill way out there and sit looking for the culprit. They don't see it so they just sit there forever and you can't get them to move.This is the reason I stick with real early and real late.

As for the amount of howling they do here in the east, I believe human presence has a lot to do with it. When you think about it, you can sit way out in the woods and still hear something from the human world going on around here all the time. Howling at night is even sporadic until around ten or so. Once folks go to bed the world belongs to them and they sing all night.Jimmie
 
Steve and Jimmie,
My Iowa coyotes are much the same as yours. I very rarely hear them howl during mid-day. The human population here is much the same as Jimmie speaks of. I can't walk to top of any hill around here without seeing a farmhouse. For a good many years there , I didn't believe in howling for any other reason than locating. Later I started using howls at end of a set as a suspicion remover. Even after I was nearly ran over by a pair of coyotes on their way to attack the intruder, I still used rabbit calls for my main lure. Even after calling in a couple of Arizona coyotes with nothing but howls and pup whines ( in 90 degree plus weather) I was still a little skeptical. It took a few more howled coyotes, a trip to south dakota to howl yotes with Wiley E, and a few more howled coyotes to convince me. Coyotes are just plain suckers when it comes to hearing their own voice. Dang they hate strangers!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
The first time I used a howler I was convinced of it's abilities. That old dog walking around the truck with raised hackles would have convinced anybody.He didn't care about the truck , he wanted the interloper!

Rich, I think what makes most people afraid to use the howler is a lack of confidence in themselves. From your own post above I think you can relate to that. I know I can, there have been several times I questioned my own abilities as well. I still question my abilities to recreate the dominant dog that gets them so heated up. We just have diferent ideas about using it at certain times of year as a primary call. Around here in febuary and march taking the safetey off as soon as you drop the call is a darned good idea /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Guy's , remember it's not the sound you make but the series of sound you use. How well you sound doesn't make that much difference.No two coyote's sound the same. In an above post I mention two old dogs I can tell apart from their howls.Even from other group members.When you cut lose with a howler they are possitive they haven't heard you in the neighborhood before because you will sound different from the animals they know. I guarentee they know all the neighbors and how they sound.The territorial instinct is strong in the coyote.This is the reason it works everywhere!

Rich , how often do you hear one respond before it comes in? Jimmie
 
Jimmie,
I can relate to everything you said in above post. I still question my own abilities even though I have called and killed a heck of a lot of coyotes in my time. You mention how all coyotes sound differently, and how they learn to recognize the voice of their friend. I am not 100 percent certain that they can recognize their friends but I am about 98 percent sure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I am also convinced that they learn the sound of my howler as well as my own voice howl if I hunt same area a few times and get busted.

I think that a lot of our problems in Iowa and points east, is the fact that their are more people than there are coyotes. One trip to texas and a few days of calling to virgin eared coyotes does a heck of a lot for a guy's self confidence.
 
Nightwatchman,
Sorry to have drifted away from topic of your question.

Guys,
Do you think maybe we should start a new topic about calling tactics and sounds?
 
I think we should Rich, it will do the begginers a lot of good and will make a few of us old codgers remember a few tricks.Start her off and we'll join right in.

BTW, I know you have way more kills than I do but I can count the ones that answered me before coming in on my hands.Don't even have to take my shoes off /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif If I wanted to count the ones that came on in we'd all have to take off our shoes . Of course that would ruin the air in here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Jimmie
 


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