Seating Depth

George Foster

George Foster

Member
I can never remember, if you are shooting three shot groups with two close together and one out or away do you want to seat the bullet deeper or seat it longer.

Thank You,
George
 
I haven't heard that one,I would try another group and adjust powder weight until ya get a decent group then start with seating depth.
 
This is happening consistenly with a load and I think I read on one of the forums you seat the bullet deeper and if you are getting triangular groups you seat the bullet out farther. Maybe I am completely wrong but it seems that is what I read. I have done enough shooting over the past 55 yrs to know usually if I am at fault or if something else is at fault.

x x

x

x

x x

I will try this to see if I can show what I am talking about.
 
Last edited:
Draw on a target with a sharpie your common group. Also, slow down shooting. You're likely warming the barrel and opening the groups.
 
If a hunting rifle, I will shoot 3 shots consecutively like one might in a hunting situation such as a double or triple coming in.
 
I finally found it again and this is what I was referring to.

I don't care what distance from the lands any bullet is because it doesn't matter as long as the OAL fits into the magazine and chambers well.

Here is what I do.

The shape of the group tells all. If the groups is a large equilateral triangle, seat the bullets out a 1/4 turn on the die and repeat until the group shrinks. If the group is 2 together with the 3rd out there, seat the bullet deeper in the same manner, a 1/4 turn at a time and the group will shrink.

John
 
Originally Posted By: George FosterI finally found it again and this is what I was referring to.

I don't care what distance from the lands any bullet is because it doesn't matter as long as the OAL fits into the magazine and chambers well.

Here is what I do.

The shape of the group tells all. If the groups is a large equilateral triangle, seat the bullets out a 1/4 turn on the die and repeat until the group shrinks. If the group is 2 together with the 3rd out there, seat the bullet deeper in the same manner, a 1/4 turn at a time and the group will shrink.

John


George,
If I might throw in my two cents worth, the only part of that explanation I can agree with is "The shape of the groups tells all." The rest sounds like someone found something that works in HIS PARTICULAR RIFLE. What I mean is, that is is a well established fact that different rifles like different bullets, seating depths and the groups reflect that like or dislike. Just because a rifle "likes" to have the bullets seating into the lands, doesn't mean a similar rifle even made by the same manufacturer and caliber will respond with like results. Some rifles like a "jump" and won't tolerate a "jam" and the groups reflect it. It has NOTHING to do with where you've set your Bullet Seating Die per se. You have got to find what your baby likes.

Also, you mentioned shooting 3 shot groups. Your results are part of the reason why I and many others, shoot 5 shot groups that helps you to better evaluate your test. Two shots touching and one out to lunch could be the infamous flier brought on by who knows what, including the shooter. So I recommend shooting five shots with any new load you are testing. Otherwise you are guessing as to the issue which by the referenced group could be reflective of not sufficently tightened action screws and have zip to do with your load. Just some thing to consider. Good luck because in more than 50 years of shooting, I've been down the same aggravating road many times.

Alex
 
Alex, I took and loaded six loads the first one being the original seating depth and then the next five each being 1/4 turn deeper. I went to the range this morning with the loads and tested them. I found with this particular load and rifle that three of the deeper seating depths shot tighter groups than the original and two shot worse. The best of the three that shot tighter believe it or not shot a group size 1/2 as large as the original. I have no idea if that would hold true for other loads and rifles but I did find out what I wanted to know.

Over the course of shooting for 55 years I have learned a lot of things and they have been learned by trying different things. Now if I could remember all the good things I have learned it would be nice because the older I get the more I seem to forget.
 
Originally Posted By: George FosterOver the course of shooting for 55 years I have learned a lot of things and they have been learned by trying different things. Now if I could remember all the good things I have learned it would be nice because the older I get the more I seem to forget.


That's why my note book goes to the range with me every trip. It's as important as my ammo. Just wish I had learned that 50 years ago.
 
This is also why I take my Lee hand press to the range when I'm working on seating depth.

Seat a bunch of them long and then work them down until I find that magic (hopefully) depth.

Then if I find something promising I can shoot a couple of groups at that length.
 
Originally Posted By: George FosterAlex, I took and loaded six loads the first one being the original seating depth and then the next five each being 1/4 turn deeper. I went to the range this morning with the loads and tested them. I found with this particular load and rifle that three of the deeper seating depths shot tighter groups than the original and two shot worse. The best of the three that shot tighter believe it or not shot a group size 1/2 as large as the original. I have no idea if that would hold true for other loads and rifles but I did find out what I wanted to know.

Over the course of shooting for 55 years I have learned a lot of things and they have been learned by trying different things. Now if I could remember all the good things I have learned it would be nice because the older I get the more I seem to forget.



George,
Glad to see something is working for you. And the others have provided some excellent info regarding the notebook. I take a notebook to the range with me with load data for each of my rifles, because like you, my minbd doesn't retain information anything like it used to. So like the other have said, write it down. Now I keep[ a master log at home on my reloading bench and I keep my targets while testing so I'll know for sure how the patterns have changed. I like to use Benchrest targets also where I put crosshair stickers above the intended POI so I can be sure to aim at the same exactly spot (if it'll just stand still for me sometimes) and the hole pattern will register below about by some 4". Putting holes through the center of the target is the idea, but if you get lucky and blow out your venter area, you are guessing where the center is. SO like with my Benchrest Rifles, all those issue disappear and I get a better read on my pattern. And BTW, just for info, usually powder loads and seating depth go hand in hand, assuming you are using the best powder for your purposes. But something I've never run across was a drastic POI difference (like 1.5 inches) having only chnged the powder load by 1/2 gr (.5 on the scale). It happened to me at the range yesterday when I was working on my new rebuild 6.5 using IMR 4350 pushing 142 Sierra VLD's. Oh I've seen pattern changes alright over the years, but never so drastic having changed my load by only .5 grains. I've heard the VLD's were sensitive, but man that was an eye opener.

Keep at it my friend. Things will get better and keep good notes for yourself.

Alex
 
Last edited:
Alex,

I lots of times make fun of myself and am not serious. I have information on probably every handload I have used for the past 40years and every rifle I have loaded for. In the old days I kept handwritten information and now I have converted it all to an excel spreadsheet I made for myself. I keep my targets in manila envelopes and try to print out and keep subject matter I find on the internet that I may or may not use in my reloading. I do have two bad habits though, I tend to put things away so I will know where they are when I want them and every once in awhile I decide to clean up the gun room and throw out things I don't want to. That is what happened with the information on seating depth, I apparently threw it out. Three years I was having a rifle built and I put the cash away to pay for it when it was done. Well when the gunsmith called to tell me it was ready and I told him I would be coming to pick it up for about an half hour I couldn't find where I had hid the cash away. I sometimes wish I had a reloading setup to take to the range with me but I only live 10 mins away and it is no problem to go back and forth. I am the VP of a small club and we only have 40 some members so it is pretty much a private range for me and I very seldom see anyone else there. That is nice as I can shoot at my pace and go out to check my targets whenever I wish without bothering anyone. It is amazing at least to me how much group sizes can change by .5gr of powder, I don't recall and would have to look but I know I have had 1" changes but about 1-1/2" changes I don't know. I use the 100 BR targets with six targets to an 8-1/2 x 11" sheet and all my rifles are sighted to shoot 1-1/2" to 1-3/4" above the aiming point.

I may or may not use the load in the rifle I was working in the future but I liked finding out if the theory would work. As I said in the case of this certain rifle and load it did.
 
Good Mornin George,
So much of what you said reminds me of ME! It drives me absolutely NUTS when I can't find something I know I have and cannot remember where the heck I put it. I've learned to put my money in the very same spot in my gun safe so I won't have to look high and low where the "F" I put it last. But like you, I keep separate book on each of my seven calibers that I reload for and always look back and compare the targets to my notes so I can AT LEAST come up with some logical and intelligent thinking about what I want to do. BTW,I think at some point in the future, I'll even have to consider buying one of those life alert contraptions that ensures I get home from the range on time for dinner! Take care and enjoy this "wonderful" process called aging. If the politicians don't do us in first, natural aging will.
 
Last edited:


Write your reply...
Back
Top