Sig Arms is a crying shame.
- Thread starter crapshoot
- Start date
Widow maker 223
Well-known member
Trash company. With all the problems of the 320, 365 and the cross I would never buy anything from them. They are like the gov, deny deny deny even though the 320 debacle had been going on for many years.
Widow maker 223
Well-known member
The 365 had issues with mostly the earlier models. Failure to return to battery, light primer strikes, some magazine related feeding issues. I think most of that was taken care of unlike the 320.
GC
Well-known member
Yes, like many new offerings, the P365 experienced some issues in its early release. Sig fixed those quickly, and the P365 has been trouble-free for many years now. You're right about the 320. That is shaping up to be major trouble for the brand. I never cared for the 320, it just didn't feel good to me, so I never got on that bandwagon.
GC
Well-known member
That is a horse of a different color. Same for the DA/SA guns like the P220 & 226. I was issued a 226 for about four years and shot thousands of rounds through that gun with zero troubles. I think the Sig 1911 guns are good to go, the 320 seems to have an issue, and Sig definitely needs to address that.
Bowhntr6pt
Well-known member
I lost all respect for Sig many years ago... here's why...
I use to run a tactical training company and about ten deputies from a central Florida Sheriff's Office would come twice a year to train. They were issued a Sig .45 ACP I think 8-round single stack magazines... the guns were POS's jamming EVERY magazine... not just one pistol, ALL OF THEM. I watched this for years... I even watched other deputies attend a regional SWAT school and all their pistols jammed... ammo type mattered not, they would just jam and half feed.
Over the years the Sheriff's Office got nowhere with Sig... Sig's official response was to change mag springs annually.
Mind you... this is a FIRST HAND account, not something a friend of a friend told me or something I read on the internet. Zero interest for me on ANYTHING Sig.
I use to run a tactical training company and about ten deputies from a central Florida Sheriff's Office would come twice a year to train. They were issued a Sig .45 ACP I think 8-round single stack magazines... the guns were POS's jamming EVERY magazine... not just one pistol, ALL OF THEM. I watched this for years... I even watched other deputies attend a regional SWAT school and all their pistols jammed... ammo type mattered not, they would just jam and half feed.
Over the years the Sheriff's Office got nowhere with Sig... Sig's official response was to change mag springs annually.
Mind you... this is a FIRST HAND account, not something a friend of a friend told me or something I read on the internet. Zero interest for me on ANYTHING Sig.
Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
@Bowhntr6pt
My experience has been slightly different.
And is in a COMPLETLY different series. So this is a apple vs orange comparison .
The P225 (P6) and the P226, both have performed flawless for me that said all of mine carried "made in W. Germany" .
I preferred the P226 over the Berretta M9 although a somewhat solid performer (no where near as good a Glock which I have a personal biases against, but dang it's so reliable and would carry it in a heart beat).
Both of those examples in the SIG line up are naturally pre 1990's era so yeah. Back when SIG's offering's actually worked properly.
Never got lucky enough to have the P220 series, but if I did I would actually look for the West German marking. Just a opinion.
And no not looking for one anymore... That is why I have 1911's LOL.
added I have noticed when they (SIG) moved away from exposed hammer their "quality" went south in the AD aspect.
And the few SIG's I do own all are in today's world old out dated by many.
That does not take away from your statements and experience. And actually your statements confirms a opinion I have of the newer offerings.
My experience has been slightly different.
And is in a COMPLETLY different series. So this is a apple vs orange comparison .
The P225 (P6) and the P226, both have performed flawless for me that said all of mine carried "made in W. Germany" .
I preferred the P226 over the Berretta M9 although a somewhat solid performer (no where near as good a Glock which I have a personal biases against, but dang it's so reliable and would carry it in a heart beat).
Both of those examples in the SIG line up are naturally pre 1990's era so yeah. Back when SIG's offering's actually worked properly.
Never got lucky enough to have the P220 series, but if I did I would actually look for the West German marking. Just a opinion.
And no not looking for one anymore... That is why I have 1911's LOL.
added I have noticed when they (SIG) moved away from exposed hammer their "quality" went south in the AD aspect.
And the few SIG's I do own all are in today's world old out dated by many.
That does not take away from your statements and experience. And actually your statements confirms a opinion I have of the newer offerings.
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Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
The Armalite / Fairchild & later Colt AR platform has that same flaw ever since the 1960's.
In the Military circles it's known factor, and is briefed often during BRM.
Seeing how the Barrett is a scaled up version of the AR 10 with a bolt gun upper yeah I can see that design flaw carrying over. The 10 and 15 series have the same fire control setup (USGI setup, some aftermarkets "might" alleviate the flaw).
In the Military circles it's known factor, and is briefed often during BRM.
Seeing how the Barrett is a scaled up version of the AR 10 with a bolt gun upper yeah I can see that design flaw carrying over. The 10 and 15 series have the same fire control setup (USGI setup, some aftermarkets "might" alleviate the flaw).
Bowhntr6pt
Well-known member
Totally understand and acknowledge Sig has produced some world-class pistols over the years.
Like many other companies, as the years go by, some of these business simply fail to live up to their reputation and quality along with accountability goes down hill.
Bowhntr6pt
Well-known member
Exactly...
Widow maker 223
Well-known member
Sig won that military contract for the 320 at $207 per gun!! Reports are replacement parts are coming from India. The military also hates the new XM250 and the XM7.
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RockChucker1980
Member
I feel bad for recommending a 320 to a friend of mine. He was looking at a Sig 320 or a Taurus. At the time I thought it was a no brainer...
Widow maker 223
Well-known member
At least if the Taurus didn't go off it wouldn't hurt anyone. 
GC
Well-known member
Here's the latest statement from Sig, emailed out yesterday....
P320 Information
P320 Safety Information
Recently, there have been a number of reports and claims regarding the safety of the P320 pistol and its use by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies. We understand you may have questions. We want to address your concerns and provide you with full, complete, and accurate information.
SIG SAUER has ALWAYS and will continue to put the safety and security of the U.S. Military, the law enforcement community, our consumers, and the public first. To this end, we want to be sure concerned citizens have access to complete facts.
The P320 pistol is one of the safest, most advanced pistols in the world -meeting and exceeding all industry safety standards. Its design has been thoroughly tested and validated by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies at the federal, state and local levels. In addition, the P320 has been rigorously tested, and is currently in use by militaries and law enforcement agencies around the world.
FBI Testing and Report
A recently publicized internal report from the FBI’s Ballistic Research Facility (BRF) created some confusion and raised questions about the safety of the P320. The FBI prepared this report for the Michigan State Police after an officer was involved in an accidental discharge. SIG SAUER engineers met with the FBI and Michigan State Police on several occasions to review the report and the incident. Ultimately, the FBI conducted a more detailed, repeatable, and comprehensive battery of testing using compatible equipment. The subsequent testing resulted in zero instances of failures and the Michigan State Police are now confidently issuing officers P320 based pistols. The FBI BRF have yet to make any official claims or statements regarding the safety of the P320 pistol or any of its variants. However, we are urging the FBI BRF and FBI Director Kash Patel to release a full and complete testing and evaluation report on their updated P320 safety testing.
Department of Homeland Security
An internal memo from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)/ U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was recently posted online stating the agency was halting its use of the P320. Many online media outlets immediately sought to attribute this to the above referenced FBI BRF report, which is incorrect. DHS has never raised any safety concerns about the P320 and ICE has since extended their existing contract with SIG SAUER another two years. Since DHS has yet to comment publicly correcting their improperly leaked memo, or any statements questioning the safety of the P320, we are now urging ICE to release all information on P320 testing. SIG SAUER is honored to continue aiding ICE in their mission to protect America.
U.S. Air Force M18
There was a recent tragic incident at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming which resulted in the death of an Airman. Because the incident involved the discharge of a (P320 based) M18 pistol, the Air Force is actively conducting an evaluation of M18 pistols within the specific Command where the incident happened. This cautionary step is standard procedure. We proactively offered assistance to the U.S. military as they investigate the incident. Contrary to several online reports, (P320 based) M17 and M18 pistols remain on active duty with all branches of the U.S. Military, including the U.S. Air Force, defending freedom around the world. We have absolute confidence in the U.S. Military’s ability to conduct a thorough investigation and report their findings. As we learn more information about the investigation, we will continue to provide updated information.
P320 Range and Training Bans
Following several of these inaccurate reports, a number of ranges, training providers, and training facilities made the reactionary decision to ban the P320 and its use in their facilities. We are actively working to provide these individuals with accurate information along with a detailed understanding of the P320 and its safety features. If you are impacted by a P320 range or a training provider ban, we urge you to reach out to SIG CUSTOMER SERVICE: 603-610-3000 Option 1 or send a message here so we can clarify any misinformation and provide the truth.
The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear. This has been verified through exhaustive testing by SIG SAUER engineers, the U.S. Military, several major federal and state law enforcement agencies, and independent laboratories. This video provides a detailed view into all of the various safety features of the P320 and provides a detailed explanation of how the safety system works; for further information on the P320 please visit here.
As with any gun, the P320 will discharge if the trigger is pulled to the rear. Accordingly, SIG SAUER continues to remind its customers, employees, and the public to employ all safe gun-handling practices as spelled out in detail in our product manuals. The SIG SAUER Academy remains a resource to customers, employees, and the public in offering various firearms safety courses.
We respect the public’s concern and are actively working to provide as much information as possible. We sincerely thank you for your continued support of SIG SAUER and urge anyone with additional questions or concerns regarding the P320 and/or safe firearms handling to reach out to our customer service team.
SIG SAUER, Inc.
72 Pease Blvd.
Newington, NH 03801
P320 Information
P320 Safety Information
Recently, there have been a number of reports and claims regarding the safety of the P320 pistol and its use by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies. We understand you may have questions. We want to address your concerns and provide you with full, complete, and accurate information.
SIG SAUER has ALWAYS and will continue to put the safety and security of the U.S. Military, the law enforcement community, our consumers, and the public first. To this end, we want to be sure concerned citizens have access to complete facts.
The P320 pistol is one of the safest, most advanced pistols in the world -meeting and exceeding all industry safety standards. Its design has been thoroughly tested and validated by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies at the federal, state and local levels. In addition, the P320 has been rigorously tested, and is currently in use by militaries and law enforcement agencies around the world.
FBI Testing and Report
A recently publicized internal report from the FBI’s Ballistic Research Facility (BRF) created some confusion and raised questions about the safety of the P320. The FBI prepared this report for the Michigan State Police after an officer was involved in an accidental discharge. SIG SAUER engineers met with the FBI and Michigan State Police on several occasions to review the report and the incident. Ultimately, the FBI conducted a more detailed, repeatable, and comprehensive battery of testing using compatible equipment. The subsequent testing resulted in zero instances of failures and the Michigan State Police are now confidently issuing officers P320 based pistols. The FBI BRF have yet to make any official claims or statements regarding the safety of the P320 pistol or any of its variants. However, we are urging the FBI BRF and FBI Director Kash Patel to release a full and complete testing and evaluation report on their updated P320 safety testing.
Department of Homeland Security
An internal memo from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)/ U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was recently posted online stating the agency was halting its use of the P320. Many online media outlets immediately sought to attribute this to the above referenced FBI BRF report, which is incorrect. DHS has never raised any safety concerns about the P320 and ICE has since extended their existing contract with SIG SAUER another two years. Since DHS has yet to comment publicly correcting their improperly leaked memo, or any statements questioning the safety of the P320, we are now urging ICE to release all information on P320 testing. SIG SAUER is honored to continue aiding ICE in their mission to protect America.
U.S. Air Force M18
There was a recent tragic incident at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming which resulted in the death of an Airman. Because the incident involved the discharge of a (P320 based) M18 pistol, the Air Force is actively conducting an evaluation of M18 pistols within the specific Command where the incident happened. This cautionary step is standard procedure. We proactively offered assistance to the U.S. military as they investigate the incident. Contrary to several online reports, (P320 based) M17 and M18 pistols remain on active duty with all branches of the U.S. Military, including the U.S. Air Force, defending freedom around the world. We have absolute confidence in the U.S. Military’s ability to conduct a thorough investigation and report their findings. As we learn more information about the investigation, we will continue to provide updated information.
P320 Range and Training Bans
Following several of these inaccurate reports, a number of ranges, training providers, and training facilities made the reactionary decision to ban the P320 and its use in their facilities. We are actively working to provide these individuals with accurate information along with a detailed understanding of the P320 and its safety features. If you are impacted by a P320 range or a training provider ban, we urge you to reach out to SIG CUSTOMER SERVICE: 603-610-3000 Option 1 or send a message here so we can clarify any misinformation and provide the truth.
The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear. This has been verified through exhaustive testing by SIG SAUER engineers, the U.S. Military, several major federal and state law enforcement agencies, and independent laboratories. This video provides a detailed view into all of the various safety features of the P320 and provides a detailed explanation of how the safety system works; for further information on the P320 please visit here.
As with any gun, the P320 will discharge if the trigger is pulled to the rear. Accordingly, SIG SAUER continues to remind its customers, employees, and the public to employ all safe gun-handling practices as spelled out in detail in our product manuals. The SIG SAUER Academy remains a resource to customers, employees, and the public in offering various firearms safety courses.
We respect the public’s concern and are actively working to provide as much information as possible. We sincerely thank you for your continued support of SIG SAUER and urge anyone with additional questions or concerns regarding the P320 and/or safe firearms handling to reach out to our customer service team.
SIG SAUER, Inc.
72 Pease Blvd.
Newington, NH 03801