songdogdown
New member
Is it better to use standard or magnum primers for loads. I have friends that say they only use magnum primers for all of their loads.
Standard or Magnum Primers?
- Thread starter songdogdown
- Start date
cornstalker
Active member
It depends on the cartridge and powder used.
Whatcha buildin'?
Whatcha buildin'?
ballistictip
New member
i would go by what you manual says for the load you are doing, you can run into problems using the hotter magnum primers on a near max load that was tested with reg. primers.and reg primers are not hot enough for some powders and some large loads, best to stick with tested loads and use the same components, be safe!
Originally Posted By: DarylIn general, it's better to use the minumum primer that will ignite the powder reliably.
But, sometimes you have to experiment a bit to see what works best in your rifle and load.
ONLY magnum primers for ALL loads is probably bad advice.
Daryl
+1!!!
Been around the block a time or two, eh Daryl?
But, sometimes you have to experiment a bit to see what works best in your rifle and load.
ONLY magnum primers for ALL loads is probably bad advice.
Daryl
+1!!!
Been around the block a time or two, eh Daryl?
Bucksquirrely
New member
My father taught me how to reload and was an advocate of going strictly by the manuals. I heeded his advice and I'm glad I have. I have heard so many bad recommendations and opinions that if I didnt know better I would have blown myself up by now. Reloading is not something to go by someones suggestion on. Like everyone else said, go by the manual, you'll always find a load somewhere in there that will suit your needs.
I've always followed reloading manual on primers better to be safe than sorry and I started reloading mid 60's.
Since I'm now retired and have alittle bit of time on my hands here is something I did.
I've got a 270WSM with a 25.5" Lawton barrel and I can reload at the range. I have a good load for that rifle using 58gr/IMR-4350 with 150gr Sierra using WLRM primers @ 3043fps that same load but with different primers
WLR @ 3050fps
Rem 9.5M @ 3045fps
Rem 9.5 @ 3047fps
Fed 215 @ 3038fps
Fed 215M @ 3040FPS
FED 210 @ 3044FPS
CCI 200 @ 3036fps
I measure CHE don't have any pressure testing equipment. If I average the average it's 3043fps my velocity are alittle higher than book.
I don't want to get into a contest with anyone on what I did just something I had to try.
Since I'm now retired and have alittle bit of time on my hands here is something I did.
I've got a 270WSM with a 25.5" Lawton barrel and I can reload at the range. I have a good load for that rifle using 58gr/IMR-4350 with 150gr Sierra using WLRM primers @ 3043fps that same load but with different primers
WLR @ 3050fps
Rem 9.5M @ 3045fps
Rem 9.5 @ 3047fps
Fed 215 @ 3038fps
Fed 215M @ 3040FPS
FED 210 @ 3044FPS
CCI 200 @ 3036fps
I measure CHE don't have any pressure testing equipment. If I average the average it's 3043fps my velocity are alittle higher than book.
I don't want to get into a contest with anyone on what I did just something I had to try.
Roper,
That's interesting. How many loads did you do with each primer type? Was that an average, or just one shot with each type of primer?
Honestly, they seem pretty consistent. I've seen velocity spreads greater than that using the same primers.
And consistency is the real name of the game, rather than a gain or loss in velocity.
Ball powders (IMR4350 isn't a ball powder) are notoriously hard to ignite, especially in frigid temperatures, and they'll oft-times do better with magnum primers. That's usually what it takes to ignite them reliably in those temperatures, and the most accurate loads I've found with ball powders usually use mag primers.
IMR-4350 isn't as hard to ignite. In larger cases like the 7mm mag and such, I use mag primers. In .270 Win and .243 Win cases, I use standard primers with good results from IMR-4350.
If you're out there messing around again, I'd sure be interested to see several shots from each to establish what kind of velocity spread you're getting.
Daryl
That's interesting. How many loads did you do with each primer type? Was that an average, or just one shot with each type of primer?
Honestly, they seem pretty consistent. I've seen velocity spreads greater than that using the same primers.
And consistency is the real name of the game, rather than a gain or loss in velocity.
Ball powders (IMR4350 isn't a ball powder) are notoriously hard to ignite, especially in frigid temperatures, and they'll oft-times do better with magnum primers. That's usually what it takes to ignite them reliably in those temperatures, and the most accurate loads I've found with ball powders usually use mag primers.
IMR-4350 isn't as hard to ignite. In larger cases like the 7mm mag and such, I use mag primers. In .270 Win and .243 Win cases, I use standard primers with good results from IMR-4350.
If you're out there messing around again, I'd sure be interested to see several shots from each to establish what kind of velocity spread you're getting.
Daryl
Martyn4802
New member
Originally Posted By: ackleymanOriginally Posted By: DarylIn general, it's better to use the minumum primer that will ignite the powder reliably.
But, sometimes you have to experiment a bit to see what works best in your rifle and load.
ONLY magnum primers for ALL loads is probably bad advice.
Daryl
+1!!!
Been around the block a time or two, eh Daryl?
+2
The only difference between Mag and Standar primers, such as Federal 215's and 210's is flame intensity. The 215's have more priming coumpound that the 210's.
It is entirely possible to do all of your loadings using one or the other. But, if you change from Standards to mag primers, drop back on the powder charge and work up again.
I think the important point mentioned here is, do some testing to see which one works best in your rifle/load.
As an example, when I bought my 7mm Mag, I only had Federal 210 Standard primers on hand. So, I made up loads using them, and got excellent accuracy. I have never switched over to Magnum primers as the 210's work, and there is no cold weather problems shooting my 7mm Mag with the 210's. Deer hunting in the UP in very cold weather was my testing grounds to prove that.
But, sometimes you have to experiment a bit to see what works best in your rifle and load.
ONLY magnum primers for ALL loads is probably bad advice.
Daryl
+1!!!
Been around the block a time or two, eh Daryl?
+2
The only difference between Mag and Standar primers, such as Federal 215's and 210's is flame intensity. The 215's have more priming coumpound that the 210's.
It is entirely possible to do all of your loadings using one or the other. But, if you change from Standards to mag primers, drop back on the powder charge and work up again.
I think the important point mentioned here is, do some testing to see which one works best in your rifle/load.
As an example, when I bought my 7mm Mag, I only had Federal 210 Standard primers on hand. So, I made up loads using them, and got excellent accuracy. I have never switched over to Magnum primers as the 210's work, and there is no cold weather problems shooting my 7mm Mag with the 210's. Deer hunting in the UP in very cold weather was my testing grounds to prove that.
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Originally Posted By: roperI've always followed reloading manual on primers better to be safe than sorry and I started reloading mid 60's.
Since I'm now retired and have alittle bit of time on my hands here is something I did.
I've got a 270WSM with a 25.5" Lawton barrel and I can reload at the range. I have a good load for that rifle using 58gr/IMR-4350 with 150gr Sierra using WLRM primers @ 3043fps that same load but with different primers
WLR @ 3050fps
Rem 9.5M @ 3045fps
Rem 9.5 @ 3047fps
Fed 215 @ 3038fps
Fed 215M @ 3040FPS
FED 210 @ 3044FPS
CCI 200 @ 3036fps
I measure CHE don't have any pressure testing equipment. If I average the average it's 3043fps my velocity are alittle higher than book.
I don't want to get into a contest with anyone on what I did just something I had to try.
Roper, great test, I've done the same test with a couple of other calibers.
I can tell you from experience that some of those primers would group much better than others. I have been working with an Ohler 35P since the late 80's, and you can have loads with extreme spreads of less than 10 fps that group like they were buck shot loads.
I have found over the years that when I work up a load, then go to testing primers, it is amazing at the accuracy results of how one primer will shoot so much more accurately than another.
If a guy were only interested in 1 1/2" groups, primers would not mean a whole lot, but someone in persuit of extreme accuracy of shooting 1/2" groups or less is going to have to play with various brands of primers especially if he is going to get down in the 3/8" group area and less.
A friend of mine that did Research and Development for a bunch of gun companies took pictures of primers as they were ignited, and the pictures were a real eye opener at how the flame differed along with the sparks(if any)that each primer put out. His pictures were published in Precision Shooting magazine in the late 80's.
What else is really upsetting is that primers can vary from lot to lot, something we have no control over.
Since I'm now retired and have alittle bit of time on my hands here is something I did.
I've got a 270WSM with a 25.5" Lawton barrel and I can reload at the range. I have a good load for that rifle using 58gr/IMR-4350 with 150gr Sierra using WLRM primers @ 3043fps that same load but with different primers
WLR @ 3050fps
Rem 9.5M @ 3045fps
Rem 9.5 @ 3047fps
Fed 215 @ 3038fps
Fed 215M @ 3040FPS
FED 210 @ 3044FPS
CCI 200 @ 3036fps
I measure CHE don't have any pressure testing equipment. If I average the average it's 3043fps my velocity are alittle higher than book.
I don't want to get into a contest with anyone on what I did just something I had to try.
Roper, great test, I've done the same test with a couple of other calibers.
I can tell you from experience that some of those primers would group much better than others. I have been working with an Ohler 35P since the late 80's, and you can have loads with extreme spreads of less than 10 fps that group like they were buck shot loads.
I have found over the years that when I work up a load, then go to testing primers, it is amazing at the accuracy results of how one primer will shoot so much more accurately than another.
If a guy were only interested in 1 1/2" groups, primers would not mean a whole lot, but someone in persuit of extreme accuracy of shooting 1/2" groups or less is going to have to play with various brands of primers especially if he is going to get down in the 3/8" group area and less.
A friend of mine that did Research and Development for a bunch of gun companies took pictures of primers as they were ignited, and the pictures were a real eye opener at how the flame differed along with the sparks(if any)that each primer put out. His pictures were published in Precision Shooting magazine in the late 80's.
What else is really upsetting is that primers can vary from lot to lot, something we have no control over.
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ackleyman,
That'd make an interesting study.
Shoot several different primers, with several different load, and record the consistency and accuracy of each. It'd be interesting to see how many inconsistent loads shot well in comparison to loads with consistent velocities.
Again, in general, the more cosistent loads I've found have usually been the more accurate loads in my rifles.
But, I don't have a chronograph right now, so my tests have been limited to when I can borrow the use of those owned by a couple of different friends. I REALLY need to get one. They're inexpensive, and invaluable in testing load data, but I'm not a target shooter for the most part. Once I work up an accurate and acceptable load, I hunt with it.
As you indicated by the "inch and a half" vs "sub half inch" comment, I doubt primers would be a major cause of "buckshot" groups. If a rifle doesn't like a particular load, bullet, seating depth, etc...the primer won't matter.
But, when it comes down to fine tuning, the primer can definitely make a difference.
Daryl
That'd make an interesting study.
Shoot several different primers, with several different load, and record the consistency and accuracy of each. It'd be interesting to see how many inconsistent loads shot well in comparison to loads with consistent velocities.
Again, in general, the more cosistent loads I've found have usually been the more accurate loads in my rifles.
But, I don't have a chronograph right now, so my tests have been limited to when I can borrow the use of those owned by a couple of different friends. I REALLY need to get one. They're inexpensive, and invaluable in testing load data, but I'm not a target shooter for the most part. Once I work up an accurate and acceptable load, I hunt with it.
As you indicated by the "inch and a half" vs "sub half inch" comment, I doubt primers would be a major cause of "buckshot" groups. If a rifle doesn't like a particular load, bullet, seating depth, etc...the primer won't matter.
But, when it comes down to fine tuning, the primer can definitely make a difference.
Daryl
songdogdown
New member
Nothing in particular. I am getting ready to start loading for my .270win and have seen some recommendations to use the magnum primers. I already load for my 22-250 and follow the load book to the letter. I just asked a friend about the .270 because he and his dad both load for it. I will be using 130 gr Ballistic tips and Hogdon H4831sc with CCI primers.
Originally Posted By: DarylRoper,
That's interesting. How many loads did you do with each primer type? Was that an average, or just one shot with each type of primer?
Honestly, they seem pretty consistent. I've seen velocity spreads greater than that using the same primers.
And consistency is the real name of the game, rather than a gain or loss in velocity.
Ball powders (IMR4350 isn't a ball powder) are notoriously hard to ignite, especially in frigid temperatures, and they'll oft-times do better with magnum primers. That's usually what it takes to ignite them reliably in those temperatures, and the most accurate loads I've found with ball powders usually use mag primers.
IMR-4350 isn't as hard to ignite. In larger cases like the 7mm mag and such, I use mag primers. In .270 Win and .243 Win cases, I use standard primers with good results from IMR-4350.
If you're out there messing around again, I'd sure be interested to see several shots from each to establish what kind of velocity spread you're getting.
Daryl I took the average on 5 shot group with each primer used an Oehler 35. The velocity spread with each primer was pretty good the hi/low wasn't important to me just the average.
I took that same rifle worked up some loads using 60gr/R-17 WLRM primers only thing I did was try some different bullets
150gr Partition Average 3108fps
150gr Hornady Average 3117fps
150gr Sierra Average 3126fps
The primer testing was a one time deal for me. I'd seen the test A-Square did and they got some pretty high pressure spikes so you never know. I only use stick powder in my deer/elk rifles plus my varmit rifle except using Tac in a 223. Well good luck
That's interesting. How many loads did you do with each primer type? Was that an average, or just one shot with each type of primer?
Honestly, they seem pretty consistent. I've seen velocity spreads greater than that using the same primers.
And consistency is the real name of the game, rather than a gain or loss in velocity.
Ball powders (IMR4350 isn't a ball powder) are notoriously hard to ignite, especially in frigid temperatures, and they'll oft-times do better with magnum primers. That's usually what it takes to ignite them reliably in those temperatures, and the most accurate loads I've found with ball powders usually use mag primers.
IMR-4350 isn't as hard to ignite. In larger cases like the 7mm mag and such, I use mag primers. In .270 Win and .243 Win cases, I use standard primers with good results from IMR-4350.
If you're out there messing around again, I'd sure be interested to see several shots from each to establish what kind of velocity spread you're getting.
Daryl I took the average on 5 shot group with each primer used an Oehler 35. The velocity spread with each primer was pretty good the hi/low wasn't important to me just the average.
I took that same rifle worked up some loads using 60gr/R-17 WLRM primers only thing I did was try some different bullets
150gr Partition Average 3108fps
150gr Hornady Average 3117fps
150gr Sierra Average 3126fps
The primer testing was a one time deal for me. I'd seen the test A-Square did and they got some pretty high pressure spikes so you never know. I only use stick powder in my deer/elk rifles plus my varmit rifle except using Tac in a 223. Well good luck