TC encore

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NChunter89

Member
I know this has been discussed a few times here but it seems like it has been 5 years or more since anyone has brought it up. I have an encore that I bought used several years ago with a 24” 308 win barrel. I was thinking it might be neat to have one with a 15” 223 pistol barrel with a pistol grip. Seems like everything I read online seems to go back and forth whether this is legal to do or not. My local gun shops say that since the encore platform was designed to be interchangeable from rifle to pistol or vice versa that there are no issues with the ATF. After numerous google searches I found a 4 page document from the ATF talking about something similar to this but with all the legal terminology it’s hard for me to decipher. On page 4 of this document it talks about firearms that were designed to be configured as both a rifle and pistol were not regulated as an NFA item. But a couple paragraphs later it says something like a firearm that was designed to be used as a rifle cannot be converted to a pistol. After leaving messages at multiple ATF offices in my state with no returned calls, I figured I would ask if you guys have ever talked to ATF or someone that would know what I need to do. Either way isn’t a big deal to me but I’ll probably scratch the whole idea if I have to buy a separate receiver.

Here is a link to article I mentioned

https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

Thanks in advance
 
Originally Posted By: 1badsheeOnce a pistol always a pistol.

I think that's not quite right. Once a rifle always a rifle without tax stamps. We used XP100 pistols for years to make great single shot rifles.

We currently build AR15 pistols with new unused lowers and later convert them to SBR's after we get the stamp. We cannot legally convert a standard AR built rifle into a pistol.

Greg
 
Rule of thumb with T/C actions. If you plan to go to pistol configuration, buy a pistol action, and yes legally it matters.

T/C actions are either pistol or rifle as uploaded into the ATF data base when T/C sells them to wholesalers. To you that means, if you ever want to go pistol length barrel, buy a pistol action. If on the other hand you buy as a rifle, and never plan to go pistol, your good.

Not sure who would ever enforce the statue, but that is legal-eez.

The originalT/C contender was only sold as a pistol, that was the original idea, then later converted to rifle configuration with aftermarket parts. That became so popular that T/C started producing rifle length barrel set ups, but those are registered to the ATF as rifles, and cannot be made to pistols legally.

So if bought as a pistol action, you can make it into a rifle no problem, but if bought in rifle configuration, making it into a pistol is illegal.

Clear as mud??
 
Ok. So it sounds like I need to scratch the whole idea. It’s one of those things that I wasn’t sure about but definitely didn’t want to take a chance on. Thanks for the help guys.
 
I have an encore and use it for a muzzleloader, and a pistol.They all work the same,just have fun with your Encore and don't worry about it unless you live in Cal.
 
The Encore's been in production for twenty years. After reading hundreds of posts on this topic on various forums, I've yet to see anywhere where anyone has run into a legal problem, or even been questioned by law enforcement , when using a frame with a rifle or pistol barrel as long as you don't put a buttstock on a frame with a barrel under 16". I think at this point it's a non-issue.
 
NChunter89, when I bought my Contender pistols from the LGS, and it has been a few years as it is 1st generation frame, all that was listed on the ATF form was the action/frame and it was sold and bought as if it was a pistol. In fact all the frames were in their own box with a pistol grip attached and a for end that fit the 14" and longer barrels. The barrel was in it's own box. Two separate items. That way I could use it as a pistol, which is all I have done, with seven different barrels/calibers ranging from a .17 Mach 2 to a .445 Super mag. However, If I wanted to buy 24" barrel and change out the pistol grip to a butt stock and make it a rifle I can legally do that. Butt stocks were sold as separate items and not attached to a frame. I just can not legally put a butt stock on the frame and attach one of my 14" barrels without the Tax Stamp(?) for a SBR.

I believe what you provided with the link is the ruling or clarification that the ATF published after one of their senior agents was quoted saying something to the effect, "If you convert your Contender or Encore Pistol to a rifle, then you can not convert it back to a pistol. And if you buy your Contender/Encore as a rifle then you can not convert it to a pistol. I remember that causing quit a stir on a few T/C Contender and Encore forums as many shooters purchased Contenders and Encores for that feature.

In short, the ATF Director agreed that since the encore platform was designed to be interchangeable from rifle to pistol or vice versa that there are no issues with the ATF. Now state and local laws might also come into play. The Gen 1 frame that I own is NOT legal in California and that is why TC updated the Contender with the Gen 2.

Hope this helps. Buy a .223 barrel and a butt stock and really enjoy that Encore and some fun shooting.
 
I have gotten in on the side lines of this discussion before.
It is either a Contender, G2 or and Encore. There is no G1 or generation 1. The Contender platform saw several variations to the action and hammer. I have never seen any documentation of a -2,-3 etc.

If memory serves me right,the Encore made an appearance before the G2 did. The Encore in turn bumped out their very stylish single shot rifle. The G2 was designed as an improvement over the TC.

I won't get into trying to explain what is right or what is wrong on the base frames of any of the three.

My thoughts,if you get into a position of the Feds wanting serial numbers on your frame, you have done somthing some where to draw attention to yourself for such type investigations. I would imagine it would be just added onto other charges one may have done to incur such a thing.

I have hunted with TC pistols and carbines for a long time, in a lot of places and had my rigs looked at by more than one LEO.

My very biggest issue was with a young LEO that looked at my 7TCU. Brass was made from WW 223. He had no idea what he was looking at. What the brass said and what it was, two different things for sure. Wasted a couple of days getting that hashed out.

Keep your nose clean, I see no issues.
Jeff
 
I have both encore and contenders. I can swap them back and forth from pistol to rifle. It comes down to barrel length. if in a rifle format, the rifle can't have a barrel less than 16". as for a pistol, it doesn't matter.
 
I would have to look but I believe there is a max length on a handgun. 25" OAL I think, that may be a minimum OAL on rifles.

There is so much to try and digest on this subject. Then try and understand or interprete it as was its original intention is the tough part.

As always with many things in print, it can be taken a number of ways.
 
Originally Posted By: porcupineNChunter89, when I bought my Contender pistols from the LGS, and it has been a few years as it is 1st generation frame, all that was listed on the ATF form was the action/frame and it was sold and bought as if it was a pistol. In fact all the frames were in their own box with a pistol grip attached and a for end that fit the 14" and longer barrels. The barrel was in it's own box. Two separate items. That way I could use it as a pistol, which is all I have done, with seven different barrels/calibers ranging from a .17 Mach 2 to a .445 Super mag. However, If I wanted to buy 24" barrel and change out the pistol grip to a butt stock and make it a rifle I can legally do that. Butt stocks were sold as separate items and not attached to a frame. I just can not legally put a butt stock on the frame and attach one of my 14" barrels without the Tax Stamp(?) for a SBR.

I believe what you provided with the link is the ruling or clarification that the ATF published after one of their senior agents was quoted saying something to the effect, "If you convert your Contender or Encore Pistol to a rifle, then you can not convert it back to a pistol. And if you buy your Contender/Encore as a rifle then you can not convert it to a pistol. I remember that causing quit a stir on a few T/C Contender and Encore forums as many shooters purchased Contenders and Encores for that feature.

In short, the ATF Director agreed that since the encore platform was designed to be interchangeable from rifle to pistol or vice versa that there are no issues with the ATF. Now state and local laws might also come into play. The Gen 1 frame that I own is NOT legal in California and that is why TC updated the Contender with the Gen 2.

Hope this helps. Buy a .223 barrel and a butt stock and really enjoy that Encore and some fun shooting.

The ATF didn't agree to that they said once changed to a rifle it could not be returned to a pistol. It took a lawsuit to get that changed. Now if it was made as a pistol you can change back and forth, rifles still need a 16" or longer barrel. If it was made as a rifle it can not be changed to a pistol.
 


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