Teacher Suspended for Making Student Say Pledge with hand over heart

Rocky1

Rocky1

New member
Looks to me like the teacher has it right, the school board needs to be sent for Diversity Training and reassignment!


Quote:Florida Teacher Suspended for Making Student Say the Pledge of Allegiance with His Hand over His Heart

November 6, 2013 // By: Joe Calandra Jr. // Today's News //


The Bradenton Herald reports a Florida teacher is being disciplined today for compelling one of her fourth graders to say the Pledge of Allegiance with his hand over his heart.

The teacher, Ms. Anne Daigle-McDonald, placed the hand of one of her students over his heart during a class recitation of the Pledge.

Hernando County School Board officials ordered McDonald to attend “diversity training.”

The training was mandated because the child said he’d stand for the pledge, but not cover his heart, because, as a Jehovah’s Witness, he was forbidden from “worshiping objects!”

McDonald still insists the symbolic gesture is not tantamount to worship – it’s a simply an act of respect for America and its flag.

She reportedly told the child:


“If you don’t want to say the pledge, you still have to put your hand on your heart and if you don’t want to do that, you should move out of the country.”

According to the School Board report, administrators believe, “McDonald violated a host of state education rules, professional conduct principles and the student’s right to free speech and freedom of religion.”

In addition to making Ms. McDonald attend “diversity training,” the school board also docked her five days pay, relived her from student contact, and gave her an “alternative” assignment.


- See more at: http://www.libertynews.com/2013/11/flori...h.zDzqUK4f.dpuf
 
In the students defense he was to pledge to a Man made article. He did not refuse to pledge aliegence to God and country. There is quite a difference in my opinion. A flag could be compared to making a child pledge to a statue or an idol like Buddah.
 
So does that make the Star Spangled Banner a Baptist Hymn?
wink.gif


Again... And, respectfully... The teacher would be correct in this situation, according to law.
And, please feel free to check the - Congressional Notes regarding use of "under God." link. I find nothing there that states anything that would excuse the student.


Quote:Flag Code

The laws relating to the flag of the United States of America are found in detail in the United States Code. Title 4, Chapter 1 pertains to the flag; Title 18, Chapter 33, Section 700 regards criminal penalties for flag desecration; Title 36, Chapter 3 pertains to patriotic customs and observances. These laws were supplemented by Executive Orders and Presidential Proclamations.


§4. Pledge of allegiance to the flag; manner of delivery

The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.", should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute. [See Congressional Notes re use of "under God."]



§9. Conduct during hoisting, lowering or passing of flag

During the ceremony of hoisting or lowering the flag or when the flag is passing in a parade or in review, all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.



http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm




 
This country was built around that flag and the patriotism that it represents. And if you recall, One Nation Under God, Indivisible was supposed to mean something to all of us.The Liberals have slowly and steadily carved away at all that until this country is in the state it is in now! Teaching these acts of patriotism and pride in our country should be taught to our children. When they turn 18, then maybe they will help and fight to keep this country free, but the Liberals are taking that away from us and the sad part is the people of this great nation allowed it to happen through their laziness. "That will never happen here". "The government will never do that to us". "We don't really need guns, the government will protect us"."I was just to busy to go and vote". While we were sleeping the Liberals were scheming!
 
I am a patriot. I love my country. I've asked people at ball games to remove their hats during the anthem and gotten disgusted looks in return.

I, for one, will always stand and remove my hat/cover my heart during the pledge or the anthem.

Do I think the child should have treated the flag with respect? Yep.

Do I believe he has the right to freedom of speech/religion in a public school? Nope.

As a Christian man, I wasn't allowed to pray or outwardly express my religion when I was in school. Should this kid be allowed to express his religion by not saluting the flag during the pledge?

It's a sticky one.
 
Personally guys, I don't see anything about religion in pledging allegiance to the flag. That is a matter of patriotism. The pledge clearly points out who you are swearing your allegiance too, and clearly seperates God and Country... "one nation, under god".

The problem lies in liberals trying to interpret things on ten different planes of "politically correct", when what they should be doing is simply telling the parents they're [beep]ing idiots if they believe that their child showing proper respect for the flag, in accordance with etiquette established by law in this country, in any way infringes upon their religious beliefs. Otherwise we propogate little liberals left and right. Cuff the little peckerhead up side the head, and tell him if he doesn't want to salute the flag to move to Afghanistan.




Originally Posted By: Dictionary.com

pa·tri·ot·ism
[pey-tree-uh-tiz-uhm or, esp. British, pa-] Show IPA

noun
devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.
 
i was "forced" as a young student/child(early 80's) to participate in the Jehovah witness brigade... we had to stand, just no salute(at the pledge/star spangled)...similar to some of our leaders(which shouldn't be)...this country was founded on religious freedoms... i understood all of their beliefs on not celebrating holidays(but did not agree, as we did secretly any ways) but i never understood them not joining a military to fight for a country that was founded to harbor people like them...unbelievable!! and not letting their children participate in sporting events because they were competing against their "fellow man"...get the @$%# out of here!!!IMO they should have the right to not salute, but they must stand out of respect, which is what i was instructed to do for a brief time in my youth, and i say brief because the dad liked his Budweiser if you no what i mean...lol...and i will defend that they are "Christians" as they reconize Jesus as their savoir, and i don't have names or facts, but the creator of the JEH. WIT. church was a joseph smith follower, dont want to get my morman buddies in an uproar as i have much respect for them as well but you can certainly see were all these beleifs got F uped at...just sayin... off my soap box and back to my coors light ...thx and good night...
 
You have got to be kidding me. So this is a Jehova Witness church thing? I wish I'd known that the last time one of them bible thumpin yo-yos showed up on my doorstep!
 
Yeah, they don't like Christmas trees either. Much as I wonder as to how far the liberal movement might get with this "divide and conquer" stuff, and all damage the separate little groups might do with this "well, I'll use this country while the gettin's good, but I won't respect it or fight for it", I do believe it's this kid's "right". And I believe he should have responsible, patriot adults take him aside in that public school and explain why he should respect the "symbol" of his country that recognizes and protects his rights to such. Constantly, till he's outta school, and then beyond - it's all of our responsibility to do so when we see wrong or people misled. A problem with us "Conservatives" is we want to live and let live, assume others will do the same, while liberals MUST make you change to be satisfied with the world - example - many liberals are now protesting FOR nuclear power as natural gas is making the petroleum industry the solid energy provider for the next century at least. Didn't they used to protest AGAINST nuclear??

But I digress....there will always be those who want the good for free, and not participate in the "dirty" part of the work. The Amish around here are a PRIME example - they tout the Bible and it's readings, but bring up the wars with David, Saul and others, and they suddenly need to go somewhere else.
 
Guys... get a grip. what does the pledge of allegiance say? I pledge allegiance to the flag. Where does it get confusing? Its a flag. Its not the country its not God. Its a flag. Its an image a symbol that folks should pay homage to. The pledge says it all. Its not that hard to figure out. Not much difference from other countries and what they worship. Maybe the definition of allegiance makes a difference? Maybe you can splain it better?
 
I don't care how you slice it, there is no religious bearing to it, it's still a matter of patriotism. You are pledging "allegiance to the flag" and "the republic for which it stands". It is that patriotism thing that allows them the right to practice their religious beliefs, so why should they be opposed? And, if they are opposed, and choose not to show their patriotism, why should they believe that they are entitled "Liberty and Justice for all."

Originally Posted By: Dictionary.com
pledge
[plej] Show IPA noun, verb, pledged, pledg·ing.

noun

1. a solemn promise or agreement to do or refrain from doing something: a pledge of aid; a pledge not to wage war.

2. something delivered as security for the payment of a debt or fulfillment of a promise, and subject to forfeiture on failure to pay or fulfill the promise.

3. the state of being given or held as security: to put a thing in pledge.

4. Law.

-- a. the act of delivering goods, property, etc., to another for security.
-- b. the resulting legal relationship.

5. something given or regarded as a security.

6. a person accepted for membership in a club, fraternity, or sorority, but not yet formally approved.

7. an assurance of support or goodwill conveyed by drinking a person's health; a toast.

8. Obsolete .
-- a. a hostage.
-- b. a person who becomes bail or surety for another.

verb (used with object)

9. to bind by or as if by a pledge: to pledge hearers to secrecy.

10. to promise solemnly: to pledge one's support.

11. to give or deposit as a pledge; pawn.

12. to stake, as one's honor.

13. to secure by a pledge; give a pledge for.

14. to accept as a pledge for club, fraternity, or sorority membership.

15. to drink a health or toast to.

verb (used without object)

16. to make or give a pledge: to pledge for someone.

17. to drink a pledge; toast someone's health, success, etc.

Idioms

18. take the pledge, to make a solemn, formal vow to abstain from intoxicating drink.

Originally Posted By: Dictionary.com
al·le·giance
[uh-lee-juhns]

noun
1. the loyalty of a citizen to his or her government or of a subject to his or her sovereign.

2. loyalty or devotion to some person, group, cause, or the like.
 
If no religious implications are there, then why say "one nation under God" Does not placing "Gods" name into it, kinda put a religious spin on it? Makes a person wonder.
 
So my 2 cents... LOL! The kid was in the right. To sit here and force the kid to conform in the name of respect goes against the very things we stand for as a country. The kid was being respectful. He was standing in silence while those who wanted to say the pledge did so. It is the same respect I give others.

I say the pledge every single day with my students in my class. They have to stand but that is it.

Why do you think that a person has to say a pledge? They do not have to say it at all. It is a personal choice and a personal freedom.

Just like when we lead a school prayer the first Wednesday of the month at the flag pole. Some people come, some pray and other observe. As long as they are allowing me to do my bidding why does it matter?

Sorry but there are a lot of people who just do not believe at that level. There are some that do not love this country, some that love it too much and others in the middle. Do we really have to force the love of this country on students through indoctrination with the public school system?

On the flip side I you can count on myself and my kids saying the pledge, removing our caps, etc. But who am I to tell another student to disobey the teaching of their church, the wishes of their parents and etc.
 
Latest Update

Quote:District: Fla teacher suspended for forcing Jehovah's Witness to pledge to flag back in class

Published November 07, 2013/ Associated Press


MIAMI – A Florida fourth-grade teacher has returned to the classroom after a suspension for requiring a Jehovah's Witness to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance on 9/11.

A Hernando County School District report shows that Anne Daigle-McDonald was temporarily reassigned, suspended without pay and ordered to complete diversity training. District spokesman Roy Gordon said Thursday that McDonald has returned to teaching, but it wasn't immediately clear whether she returned to the same Tampa Bay-area classroom.

District officials say the student and his parents complained that McDonald physically forced the student to put his hand on his heart during the pledge Sept. 11 and 12 at Explorer K-8 school. Their religion prohibits them from saluting the flag.

Messages left for McDonald at her home and Explorer K-8 were not immediately returned.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/07/dis...912s-1248979082




Originally Posted By: Dictionary.com

sa·lute
[suh-loot] Show IPA verb, sa·lut·ed, sa·lut·ing, noun

verb (used with object)

1. Military . to pay respect to or honor by some formal act, as by raising the right hand to the side of the headgear, presenting arms, firing cannon, dipping colors, etc.

2. to address with expressions of goodwill, respect, etc.; greet.

3. to make a bow or other gesture to, as in greeting, farewell, or respect.

4. to express respect or praise for; honor; commend.




SO... basically their religion tells them to disrespect the flag and country? I'm all for them going to Afghanistan to pedal their bibles.
 
Back during the Vietnam War era when the flag burning was popular I was in the Army, a SGT Major and I had a discussion about the flag burners. In short the discussion basically was we may not agree with their beliefs or practices, but by God we will defend their right to practice those beliefs. If they want to burn the flag that is their right, if the do not want to salute the flag put their hand over their heart, that is their right.

We also agreed to defend your right to pizz and moan about these issues. The teacher had no right to force the child to do what she did, she needs a good lesson on rights.
 


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