Thermal scope upgrade

N

NChunter89

Member
I am considering upgrading my Pulsar Apex XQ38. I am wanting something with rechargeable batteries/battery pack so that I don't have to deal with the wire from the external battery pack that I am currently using. I am also looking for an increase in clarity. The primary scopes that I have been looking into are the Pulsar Trail, Pulsar Thermion, or the Trijicon IR Hunter. I initially bought the Apex to get into the thermal game for coyotes, but I didn't want to spend a fortune to begin with. Now that I have killed several coyotes with the Apex, I find myself wanting something better. I am also looking for info such as customer service experiences or anything else like ergonomics or ease of use. Just wanted to see if anyone minded sharing their experiences with these scopes to help with my decision. I don't mind spending the money on a more expensive scope, as long as there is justification for the added $$$. So what are your thoughts? Thanks
 
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I have included a list of some of the main manufacturers currently selling thermals:

Pulsar: The Pulsar Trail XP and the Thermion XP series would give you a better image, but less native magnification and larger FOV. The Trail has a larger capacity battery than the Thermion, but doesn't have color palettes/reticles. The Thermion is also better suited to be used on bolt guns vs the Trail. Either, XP series meets your requirement.

Trijicon: Trijicon makes thermals with great clarity. However, they don't have an integrated battery. There is a Rechargeable Power Kit, so that might be an option for you but you would be at around 2.5 - 3x the investment of your APEX.

Flir PTS Series: They take CR123 batteries. I have read they do allow rechargeable CR123s. The device has to account for 3.7v power vs 3.0 for rechargeables to work. The Flir PTS scopes also have a picatinny rail on the side, so a battery pack could easily be connected and with a short 1' foot cable, it would not be in the way. This is what I run. However as of today, the PTS series is a 320x240 resolution scope. So, image wise, it wouldn't be an increase in clarity. When their 640 scopes release, it would be a step up.

Bering Optics: Bering Optics thermals such as the Hogster-R and Beast-R all take CR123s and rechargeable CR123s as well as a battery pack. However, the battery pack would be similar to what you are dealing with today and image quality would be similar to your XQ38. It is a much more compact scope so easier to use as a scanner, but still doesn't solve your exact need.

ATN: The Thor thermals have an internal battery so no wires, but you are going to have a hard time buying one from a dealer as they are mostly carried by big box stores or large online retailers due to their high return rate. You would have to move up to their 640 series to potentially have a better image than your XQ38. Due to a lack of market confidence, their resale isn't as high as many other thermals.

N-Vision: Another company with an image that would be an improvement would be N-Vision. Their scopes allow for CR123s, rechargeable CR123s, and/or a battery pack.

Something to keep in mind with an internal battery (like ATN) is if something goes wrong with the battery, the scope needs to be sent in for repair. If the scope requires a proprietary battery you better make sure it allows for an external power supply, so you aren't stuck with a brick if the scope and parts are no longer made. If it accepts external power supply and/or other types of batteries AA, CR123, etc, you always have a way of powering the scope.
 
I think the 536 was a huge upgrade from my XP50. It holds zero perfectly for one and the image of an animal is far better.
 
Originally Posted By: reaper4I think the 536 was a huge upgrade from my XP50. It holds zero perfectly for one and the image of an animal is far better.
I would have anticipated this potentially over the XQ series but the XP50 is Pulsar's top of the line 640 scope. In reference to what you are saying, the animal detail on the PTS536 is really good. It is the rest of the background image that most people complain about once they have experience to the Pulsars for instance. As you said, I really like the accuracy of the PTS536 as well.
 
Thanks for the replies. I have looked through the Trail XP50, Flir PTS536, N-Vision Halo, and Trijicon IR-Hunter 35mm and Reap-IR 35mm. To be honest I wasn't impressed with the Flir clarity compared to the others. The Trail XP50 was pretty clear but it left a lot to be desired with the base mag of 1.6x. I usually kept my Apex PiP on at all times, and rarely ever took a shot without using the magnified window. My concern would be that if I'm constantly zooming the XP50 then I'm not really gaining a lot over the Apex in terms of clarity. After looking at the N-vision Halo and both Trijicons, they all seem to have the same picture clarity, but have different ergonomic features and base mags. I did like the compactness of the Reap-IR, but I didn't care much for the "joystick" on the side that's used to cycle through the menus. I could also see how the joystick could be aggravating with gloves on. The Halo seemed to be pretty user friendly, but having to feel for the buttons on the side in the dark could be interesting until you developed a feel for where everything is without looking. And finally, the IR-Hunter MK3 35mm was almost a pound heavier than the Reap-IR and Halo. The turret-style controls were easier for me to use from the start, and I wouldn't forsee any issues with using it with gloves on. As of now I am leaning toward the IR-Hunter, but I haven't completely made my mind up. Has anyone ever had any issues with customer service on any of the scopes discussed? I would assume most of the well-known companies probably do pretty well for people during the warranty period, but how about after the warranty has expired? I guess I just don't want to buy something that won't be able to be fixed after the warranty expires, even if I have to pay out of pocket.
 
I've used customer service twice on my IR Hunter. Once because I thought something was wrong and once for upgrades. Both times it was easy, Trijicon sent me a pre paid label, did the job, and returned it quickly.
 
I also wanted to ask if anyone had a preference for the 35mm or 60mm. Most of my shots are 150-250yd range, with occasional shots of 300+. I usually have decent luck getting coyotes to close the distance, but we hunt a few places where they are a little call shy and if they hang up, you have to make it happen quickly.
 
Originally Posted By: NChunter89I also wanted to ask if anyone had a preference for the 35mm or 60mm. Most of my shots are 150-250yd range, with occasional shots of 300+. I usually have decent luck getting coyotes to close the distance, but we hunt a few places where they are a little call shy and if they hang up, you have to make it happen quickly.

For those ranges the 35mm will work great, IMHO I would ditch the idea for the MKIII 35, and roll with the REAP, It's smaller, lighter, easier to operate, and gives you the same image as the MKIII 35, not to mention the DLOC mount on the REAP will give you a much better eye relief on any platform than the Larue that comes standard on the MKIII's. Now the MKIII 60mm on the other hand, that's the top tier unit that I've used so far, other than the Trijicon Oasys units which are very pricey.
 
Originally Posted By: NChunter89 I did like the compactness of the Reap-IR, but I didn't care much for the "joystick" on the side that's used to cycle through the menus. I could also see how the joystick could be aggravating with gloves on. The Halo seemed to be pretty user friendly, but having to feel for the buttons on the side in the dark could be interesting until you developed a feel for where everything is without looking. And finally, the IR-Hunter MK3 35mm was almost a pound heavier than the Reap-IR and Halo. The turret-style controls were easier for me to use from the start, and I wouldn't forsee any issues with using it with gloves on. As of now I am leaning toward the IR-Hunter, but I haven't completely made my mind up. Has anyone ever had any issues with customer service on any of the scopes discussed?

I own a MK111 35MM and am very happy with it. After using it a lot for a year now I would buy it again without hesitation. The joystick vs turret controls controls are the reason that I chose the MK111 over the Reap. Joysticks are just too complicated for me with gloves on. MY experience with Trijicon CS has been very good.
 
Originally Posted By: NChunter89I also wanted to ask if anyone had a preference for the 35mm or 60mm. Most of my shots are 150-250yd range, with occasional shots of 300+. I usually have decent luck getting coyotes to close the distance, but we hunt a few places where they are a little call shy and if they hang up, you have to make it happen quickly.

Thought I would add my comments.

My first purchase was a MK 3 35mm, loved it. I then bought a M300 IR Patrol for a scanner/weapon sight. I liked the patrol 300 because I can mount it on a helmet to scan or use it as a weapon sight.

In the past When I took a friend with me hunting I would use the 300 on my gun and let my friend use the MK 3 35 mm. I killed dozens of coyotes with my 300 patrol as a weapon sight
I later sent the 35 mm back to trijicon and had it upgraded to a 60mm. It is awesome! The clarity is the best of anything I’ve seen or used. But has a pretty narrow field of view. Just like looking through a higher power scope to scan vs looking through a 4 power scope. If you’re going to hunt with The 60mm you will absolutely need to use a scanner as well.

Recently I purchased another trijicon MK2 35 mm. It is also awesome, but is a different tool in my tool chest. Is you are looking for a 35 mm I would suggest you do not spend the money to get a MK 3 because there in no difference in quality at all as far as clarity and quality. With the MK 3 all you get is a stadimetric range finder and a few more reticles. (Not worth it)
MK 2 35 mm should do you good. Also the good thing about trijicon, if you want to up grade later just send it back and they will up grade it and only charge you close to the difference you would have paid in the beginning. Not sure if any other company offers that?

I’m not a sales person and have no ties to trijicon, just stating my my beliefs from my own personal experiences

Happy hunting if you’d like to ask me anything else in person PM me
Thanks
 
I have a friend that has the Mk2 35mm with turret controls and he loves them. Says he has used them so much he can click the controls and go thru the whole menu just by muscle memory.

For me the Reap's joystick control is not an issue because I have my index glove finger cut so I can slide my finger thru for shooting anyways. I do the same when I need to use the joystick...and cell phone lol.

Imo, if you're not doing hogs any at all, I would ditch the idea of the XP50. Especially if you can afford Trijicon or Nvision. Between those 2 it all boils down to what base mag u want and what field of view. If I was solely coyote hunting at the distances you speak of I would go Nvision. Basically because it's in the middle, with the 3.5x
 
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I appreciate everyones feedback with real world experience. It sounds like regardless of model, the Trijicons will be tough to beat. Right now I am leaning toward the IR-Hunter 60mm, because of the higher base mag and clarity at that level. I am currently using a Helion XP38, so I will not be using the scope for scanning unless something happens to it. I am hoping to be able to spend some time looking through a friends 60mm this weekend and maybe compare it side-by-side with the 35mm to get a good idea of the base mag difference.
 
The past few days I’ve been reading and watching reviews on the IR-Hunter 60mm and Reap-IR 60mm. Since it’s hard to judge image quality based on a video, does anyone have any experience with using both of these scopes side by side? Or would there be any differences in the scopes other than ergonimics and weight?
 
Just wanted to give an update to this post. I ended up deciding on the MKIII IR Hunter 60mm. I probably could’ve went with several of the options listed and been fine, but I liked the higher base mag and picture clarity of the MKIII. We made a couple of sets last night even though the moon was bright and it was windy. Managed to get this decent sized male and the first with the new scope. Thanks again for the info and replies!

 
Please let us know how you like it after further use. I have pretty much settled on that exact model. I am old and prefer more magnification. I realize the FOV is limited, but I have a FLIR LS64 with Instalert to scan with.
 
Im gonna beat everyone... wait til Jan. All tbe new toys will be out... my personal recommendation id go with a pulsar product. Picture in picture is worth whatever it costs imo. Customer service is great.
 

I bought an ATN Thor LT 3X6. It is new for last year. It is a simple thermal scope.
3-year warranty and mount like any 30mm scope, 10-hour battery life.
Handy scope 1.4 pounds for my SBR, Easy Zeroing and under $1200.

aV847Oc.jpg
 

Willy, how is the resolution of the Thor LT? Have you looked through other thermals to be able to make a comparison?
 


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