tips on predator call toneboard design for use as a musical instrument?

U

ubertar

New member
Hey, so I've been experimenting with various calls to make music with (call me a freak, I don't care) :D. The most useful ones by far are the open-reed calls. They have pretty wide range and it's easy to get vibrato. Finding the notes is intuitive; you don't need to learn any fingerings.
The best sounding and playing ones I've tried (and I've tried many) are made by Yellerdog.
But it's still not quite where I want to go with it. Which is no fault of Yellerdog... this isn't what those were designed for.
Part of it is I want to get more low notes in the range, but more importantly, I want to get a more musical tone. Less like a kazoo, more like a saxophone.
I found a 3D print model online and tweaked it... made it longer and wider. That definitely helped, but it's still not there. Thicker reeds help with tone.
I know longer will be deeper. What effect does width have?
At first the bore size was too big, because when I made the board bigger, it made everything bigger proportionally, and it wasn't playable until I filled that in to be more like the Yellerdog.
I stuck it in the end of a clarinet horn, and that adds some lower harmonics and fills out the tone some. It's getting closer, but it's still not there.
I don't need loud volume on this... actually I'd prefer it quiet, so long as the tone is good.
If anyone has suggestions-- maybe there's some factor I've overlooked-- I'd very much appreciate it.
 
To make it quieter, should I make the bore narrower? Should I keep going thicker with the reed, to get a better tone? Those seem like the best bets for improving the one I just printed. But maybe someone with more experience will have better ideas. The next one I plan to make a bit longer, to get more low notes. But I'm unsure on the optimal width. The printed one is both wider and longer than the Yellowdog, and the sound is less kazoo-like, with the same material and thickness for the reed. So I guess width is the key factor in that. I don't really want to go any wider than it already is.
 
This explains it better than i can articulate.
1000011977.jpg
 
Hmm. I don't know about that. With woodwind instruments, the reed + mouthpiece gives you a single, high pitch, and the body with it's system of toneholes and valves gives you a variety of pitches. A call is a different system. It's not true that you don't have pitch control, it's just done differently, by changing the vibrating length of the reed. I can get a wide range of pitches, about three octaves, and it's not difficult to hit a specific pitch.

No volume? The toneboard I'm using is loud as $%^!. I can't use it when my wife is home, and I'm sure I'm pissing off the neighbors (oh well).

The last point is the most valid. There are still timbre variations between toneboards, though. They're not all the same. But yes, adding tubes, cones, horns, etc. will shape the sound further. That's something I've been experimenting with. Unlike a woodwind, adding a longer tube does NOT lower the pitch, but it does add more lower harmonics. Up to a point.

I don't mean to be arguing with you, that's not what I'm here for, but the first two points there don't jibe with what I think all of us have directly experienced.
 
If I'm understanding the physics properly, unlike a woodwind, where you're using the reed to vibrate an air column, with a toneboard you're getting your sound (and the fundamental pitch) from vibrating the reed. Changes to the dimensions of the toneboard and to the reed itself will affect how the reed vibrates (timbre, overtones).
 
What i searched and maybe it will make more sense, maybe it won't.
Why don't woodwind instruments use a toneboard only. Im not arguing nor do i claim to have any experience using an open reed toneboard to make music. Just figured after literally thousands of years someone had probably explored the idea and decided it was no bueno as evident by no instruments with such a thing.
Of course i could be way wrong or maybe im just not understanding what you are trying to achieve.
 
I don't know why there aren't toneboard-based wind instruments. My best guess is because they sound cheesy like a kazoo. Has anyone put time into trying to overcome that? I don't know. Not that I'm aware of. I figure it's worth a shot. I also have something planned with it that they didn't know about until less than 100 years ago... but I'm not ready to talk about that just yet. :D

To me, "how come nobody does it that way?" is a reason to try something, not to avoid it. That could just be me.

Actually there is a culture (I forget where) where they play a certain kind of leaf as an open reed to make music. It's not hitting the Billboard charts, but it's something they've done for a long, long time.

My goals:
1. better tone (more musical, pleasing sounding)
2. add more low end to the range
3. quieter sound
 
Lower tones are tricky as all get out without sounding like a drowning duck. Wolf calls are a long low sound and I have been on and off toying with trying to make one for a while and low note calls either take a pile of air or lose the note completely. For experimenting check out the primos hot dog. It's a huge toneboard but still sounds like a regular howler.
I have noticed on large horn howlers I can get a note with more depth to it so different resonating chambers may change things.
If you are truly just filing and shaping and chopping calls up shoot me a message and we could maybe work out a deal for a handful of my old toneboards. I have a bunch of blemish and 2 piece boards I don't have much use for.
 
Thanks for the response! I've been working from a 3D print file I found online for a howler toneboard. I just made it bigger, and a local library has a service where they print things. Only cost me $5. My first attempt is 3 1/2" long and 1 1/4" wide. The reed length is 2 1/4".

I'd like to try out the hot dog, but I can't just keep buying more calls, and they say that one is really loud, which I don't want. I looked up wolf calls, and the Phelps EZ howler looks promising, but it's even more expensive and probably still isn't quite what I'm looking for. I wish there was a library for calls so I could just study them without having to own them. I'll figure out what I can from the pics and videos. Do you know what the dimensions are for the hot dog?

So I'm going to keep tweaking the 3D print design, if I can figure out how to get the software to do what I want. At $5 a pop, I can afford to experiment.

One thing I want to try is multiple narrow reeds on the same board. I have a couple open-reed duck calls that are long and narrow and you can put the boards side by side and play them both at the same time. That thickens up the sound and is a bit more musical. Maybe three or even four narrow reeds on one board would be a good sound.

The main questions I have so far, are:
1. What effect does the width of the reed have on the sound?
2. What effect does the bore size and shape (some are straight, some taper toward the tip) have on sound and playability?

3. From what I've read, the thinner the reed material, the raspier the sound. Raspier has more overtones (good), but is also more kazoo-like (bad). Maybe there's a way of shaping the reed to bring out harmonic overtones and dampen the non-harmonic overtones? Some kind of texture or something. I guess the issue here is, since the sound comes mainly from the reed, not the air column, and the reed is non-linear, the overtones are not going to just fall into the harmonic series, like in a woodwind. So when you have a high density of overtones (raspier) they're not going to sound musical.

There are non-linear melodic instruments in the world that sound good... potted gongs in Indonesia, African xylophones and m'biras... but those have a lower density of overtones. Actually the tines of an m'bira (kalimba, sanza, thumb piano, whatever you want to call it) are very similar to call reeds. They're fixed on one end, free on the other. They're long and thin. The difference is you pluck them instead of vibrating them with air. So width doesn't seem to be a key factor. A thicker reed will be harder to play but should sound better.

How is the wolf call coming along? Sounds like you're dealing with similar challenges. Resonating chambers help to emphasize certain overtones and shape the sound. A clarinet has a straight tube, while a sax has more of a (bent) cone shape, getting wider toward the bell. I prefer the sax sound to the clarinet.

I see that @Yellerdog is a member here. I hope he sees this and has some words of wisdom.
 
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