To Moly or Not to Moly

Silverado

New member
I bought a new 22-250 a couple of weeks ago and I loaded H. V-max 40gr. with moly coating for my first outing to sight it in. After this I was bragging about my new rifle at work, and the question about loads came up and when I told them I used moly coated bullets I was told that once you go moly you can't go back. Can this be true?

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Welcome to the board Silverado!

That's total BS, you can go back. It may take a while to get all the moly out of your barrel, but it is no big deal. A little less powder for the bare bullets, and forget about traces of moly in your barrel.

I have switched several times with more rifles than I want to admit to. Just treat it as working up a new load. What was a reasonable pressure load with coated bullets, may be a proof test load or more with bare bullets.

Jack
 
I was talking to the bullet tech. at Sierra yesterday about this very thing. Although Sierra bullets have moly bullets they have never thought that moly is needed. As a matter of fact they say that it is BAD to leave a rifle with moly in the bore. Why? Because moly attracts water in a big way and barrel pitting can easily occur. I started one of my rifles with moly bullets and was wondering, once moly always moly? His answer was tha same as Jacks. No problem. Simply take your rifle, plug the chamber, fill the bore with KRIOL and let it sit over night. This will remove moly very well. After that work up your load as you always would.

Michael
 
Its sure a lot easier cleaning a barrel that shoots moly bullets though...

1 wet patch of Hoppes 9
2 dry patchs

Finished.


Hadnt heard of H2O attractiveness before though... ewww.
 
Robb, just out of curiosity, when you complete that cleaning protocol, how do you know your finished? Or, maybe a better way of asking - what do you mean by "finished"?

Cuz you sure ain't gonna get all the fouling out that quick and easy. No way no day. Moly plated bullets or not.

If you've put a lot of rounds down that pipe, using that regimine, I'll betcha you've got layers of copper and powder fouling under layers of moly in that bore. Possibly many such layers. Possibly some nice pitting in your bore underneath the last layer (but not necessarily - especially not considering your arid environment). It's situations like this that lead to the notion of "once moly always moly". Because, once you've neglected a bore like that over a period of time and a lot of rounds, it WILL take many HOURS of HARD work to get all those layers of crud out. And, depending on the types of conditions the rifle has been subjected to, a pretty good chance of finding a nicely pitted bore under the last layer (moly+water=acid). Better to just keep using the moly in a case like that - which is a very common situation. For some reason, folks got this notion that moly = no cleaning. It just ain't so...

- DAA
 
DAA-

Does it matter that I "standard" cleaned and then moly'd the barrel before I shot the moly bullets through it ?

(edit: re-re-reading what you wrote, Im guessing that pre-molying the barrel won't matter...)

(oh, "clean" because patch #2 comes out "not dirty", that was my indication. Open to new knowledge though...)

[This message has been edited by Robb/Scottsdale/AZ (edited 03-21-2002).]
 
Robb, no it doesn't matter that you started off clean and conditioned. Despite all the popular press to the contrary, moly plating doesn't prevent all copper fouling. Reduces it, yes. Even greatly reduces it in many applications. But I've never seen it actually eliminate jacket fouling entirely.

Just how bad it may or may not be, depends on a whole lot of different things. Velocity, intensity, number of rounds between cleanings, rapidity of fire (heat), initial quality of bore finish, jacket material, how the moly was applied to the bullets, how the bullets were seated (did the moly get scraped off the shank?) and on and on and on. Way too many factors to list them all.

May not be "bad" at all. May be simply horrendous. May be, that even if it is horrendous, it really doesn't matter in your application. There simply isn't any one-size-fits-all way of looking at anything like this. Which is the root of the situation. Walt Berger had great success with his method of moly usage in his particular, very, VERY narrowly defined set of circumstances (6 PPC competition Bench Rest rifles). A whole slew of folks just kind of took what he was doing and ran with it, whether the situation they were applying his methods to even REMOTELY resembled his particular set of variables or not. For 90% of the folks shooting moly today, they have never bothered to really think about why they are using it, what they hope to accomplish with it and how best to go about getting that done for the particular situation they are in. They just heard that you don't have to clean anymore - which has never been true, for anybody - not even Walt Berger or Roger Johnston (founder of NECO).

With only one wet patch down the bore, the second dry one isn't going to have much showing on it, regardless. If you have a rifle that you don't use moly in, try it - betcha that second dry patch doesn't show much either. Hoppe's isn't a particularly aggressive solvent. One wet patch of it won't even start to loosen up even slightly stubborn jacket fouling, nor even mildly stubborn powder fouling for that matter. If the fouling is still nice and tightly bonded to the bore, a couple of dry patches sure aren't going to break it loose and give you any visual indication. This is just common sense. But, a peek through a bore scope now and then demonstrates that that what common sense tells us is indeed true.

I don't want y'all to think I'm just dead set against moly. It has proven useful in many applications. I only use it in one barrel, for which I'm trying to solve a particular problem and in which the thoughtful use of moly plated bullets does in fact solve the specific problem. I personally don't care to use it without specific reason though, and don't have any other barrels where I see any advantage. I also don't want to sound like one of these guys that runs around proclaiming doom and gloom for all who dare to use moly and stop regular cleaning. For the vast majority of shooters, it just isn't going to matter, one way or the other. Their requirements just aren't that high. A pitted, filthy bore kills coyotes just as dead as a sparkling shiny clean one. And for anyone using it and remembering to clean, there isn't anything to be concerned with anyway.

- DAA
 
The key to accurate loads is reduction of variables. To me moly is another variable I don't want to mess with.

I have two rifles with custom barrels on them, a 6mm br with a pacnor and a 308 with a schnider. I clean both about every 20 rounds or so and they just do not foul( when I say they don't foul, I mean what fouling there is comes out with patches and minimal brushing with shooters choice no.7 bore cleaner) with naked bullets. I'll check my cleaning every 60 rounds or 3 cleanings with sweets to see if I'm getting all the copper out and I am.

I'm not down on Moly I just choose not to use it in my guns.

The clencher with me was when I too was on the phone with a Sierra tech and he said they offered moly bullets for sale because the public wanted them and it was a profitable venture, BUT no one who worked at Sierra was using moly bullets in their rifles!!!

I know the folks at Sierra know more than I ever will about rifles and bullets so I figured whats good enough for them was good enough for me: 308

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I'd rather kill a coyote than eat when I'm hungry!
 
I started a brand new rifle out using moly coated bullets. Hornady v max factory loads to be exact. I found the cleaning to be easier and the gun loved them. I started to read aout all this moly+water + acid and got to thinking. Dummy I said(I can say that not anyone else
biggrin.gif
) You got that gun new and you are using something that could,might, possibly ruin it due to the fact that you live in an enviroment that it will litteraly condesate dew on your body it is so humid. You better clean that gun and start using non moly coated bullets. I can attest how hard it is to get out the moly from the bore of a gun. I found that I had a layer of moly then a layer of copper. Not a lot of copper but enough to turn a patch or two blue. Then a layer of copper and so forth for about 6 layers. I got that gun clean and haven't shot one with moly on it since. I had a gun that had moly in it(different gun) and I loaded some nekked(redneck spellin
biggrin.gif
) for it and shot one round. When I opened the bolt I had split a neck on that case. There was enough of a layer of moly in it that it caused th pressures to go through the roof. I cleaned this gun like I cleaned the other and I haven't used moly in it any more either. I reshot the loads and worked back up to that loading and beyond with no more problems of pressure. Without a doubt it was the moly buildup that caused the pressure spike. It scared the heck out of me..

If you have used moly in a gun I wouldn't recommend loading up and shooting naked bullets through it>>>>James L.

BTW I found that the best thing to clean the moly out with was Barnes CR 10 And a product called Wipe-Out..>>>>>>>>>James L.

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yotewalk.gif


Never underestimate the power of stupid people!
 
Ok guys - gotta chime in here. Not with any conclusions, 'cause I ain't got any. Here's the story though. My partner new I didn't have time right now to work up a load for my 14" .223 contender, so he loaded 12 sets w/ 3 rounds in each set. I've never shot a moly round through it. I shot all 12 sets. The first 11 were from .75 to 1.5". The last went .445". Now there may be some luck in this, because I doubt that I can shoot that good... Anyway, I didn't look at the loads until after the fact. First 3 sets were clean bullets. The next 3 were Moly. Next 3 were clean. The last 3 (including set #12) were Moly. Now I'm kind of thinking I might clean the barrel real good, swab the barrel with one of the moly pre-treatments and then retry all the moly sets again as I understand that "seasoning" with moly is important. Also, now I'm wondering if the groups were all bogus because some of the clean rounds were contaminated w/ moly.

What say ye???

steve
 
To start out "THANKS" for the welcome!

I posted this question late last night and I just got home from work today, and checked for any response, and I was a little suprised to see I had raised such a controversy. But it seems I still do not have a positive answer on "to moly or not"! Here is my main concern I also bought the H. V-Max 58gr. moly for my .243 and have loaded a few rounds to see what works in it. Now this barrel has about 1000 rounds through it but never Moly, and it has always been very accurate (5 shot groups at 200yds no sand bags will fit under a quarter).I haven't shot the moly bullets yet, and I would pull them and go back to regular jacketed and call it a loss if I was to run the risk of loosing the accuracy and longevity of this rifle. (I only wanted to try the moly bullets for speed, and to keep the barrel heat down. Not so I would not have to clean the bore.) Now the 22-250 on the other hand has only 7 shots through it and I think reversal should be easy right now if I don't continue the workup on the moly bullets.
I do really appreciate the active response on this subject, and I am happy to have found this message board. It seems there are some very well learned and active shooters/hunters/reloaders that read, and respond to this board. I do want to continue the research into this 22-250 tommorrow if I feel safe in doing this, as our local weather shows a very positive 65deg. day. But if it will be at the risk of the barrel I will not go until I load standard jacketed rounds.
 
Originally posted by Jack Roberts:
Welcome to the board Silverado!

That's total BS, you can go back. It may take a while to get all the moly out of your barrel, but it is no big deal. A little less powder for the bare bullets, and forget about traces of moly in your barrel.

I have switched several times with more rifles than I want to admit to. Just treat it as working up a new load. What was a reasonable pressure load with coated bullets, may be a proof test load or more with bare bullets.

Jack
 
If your going to shoot Molly bullets through a barrel that has had quite afew rounds through it you should first clean 100% of the copper and carbon from the barrel, other wise it will cause the Molly to build up very fast and cause slight constriction in the barrel, not good. I shot Molly in one gun, a .17 Rem. and will never fire another round of it in any of my guns again. It got so bad that no amount of scrubbing with JB`s and Koril would get it to shooting again. I findly got it shooting by fire lapping the barrel. I ask around at a couple of benchrest shoot and got nothing but negitive replays about the stuff. I would recomand that you forget Molly.
 


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