Trouble getting a crimp on 303 savage reloads

M

masshunter

Active member
First let me say me and my bud have been reloaders for over 35yrs, 308 3006, 3030, 218 bee, ect, but we are having a heck of a time with the 303 sav. Using RCBS dies, following all directions, Rem 170rn, 30/30 bullets, the bullets are still loose.When we try to get a better crimp by slowly lowering the seater die 1/8 turn at a time like the directions say, we eventualy get a good crimp, but we crush the shoulder. The bullet can be still turned by hand. Anyone know what we are doing wrong? I would live with the loose bullets for the range and hunt with factory, but we're running low and they are out of production.
The second part is how can we salvage the damaged cases?
I thought about pulling the bullets and fire-forming them back using a reduced load and a cotton filler, no bullet. Anyone got any Ideas on that ? We have mostly IMR rifle powders, plus RL7, Unique, 2400, & Bullseye. Can anyone help ?
 
Are the cases uniformly trimmed to the "trim to length"? It also sounds like you need more case neck tension regardless of the crimp.
 
Originally Posted By: masshunterFirst let me say me and my bud have been reloaders for over 35yrs, 308 3006, 3030, 218 bee, ect, but we are having a heck of a time with the 303 sav. Using RCBS dies, following all directions, Rem 170rn, 30/30 bullets, the bullets are still loose.When we try to get a better crimp by slowly lowering the seater die 1/8 turn at a time like the directions say, we eventualy get a good crimp, but we crush the shoulder. The bullet can be still turned by hand. Anyone know what we are doing wrong? I would live with the loose bullets for the range and hunt with factory, but we're running low and they are out of production.
The second part is how can we salvage the damaged cases?
I thought about pulling the bullets and fire-forming them back using a reduced load and a cotton filler, no bullet. Anyone got any Ideas on that ? We have mostly IMR rifle powders, plus RL7, Unique, 2400, & Bullseye. Can anyone help ?

1 - Are you neck sizing or full sizing.

2 - When you say the bullets are "loose, do you mean that you can turn them with your fingers after they have been seated in a sized case?

3 - If the cases that are crumpled, and they will still fit in the chamber, you can shoot them and they will be fine... don't use pistol powder - use full rifle loads.

4 - What you need is a separate crimp die - trying to seat and crimp in the same die, at the same time, begs for problems...

... I know that 47 guys will now pipe in and say that they do it without problems... but you ARE having those problems - and using a separate crimp die will solve all of your crushed case problems.
If RCBS does not make a separate crimp die, buy another seating die and take the seater stem out and use the body alone... your cases will love you for it.

They will probably send you candy and flowers
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Yes FL sized & trimmed We can twist them with our fingers.
Thanks for getting back to me. We may try a differant bullet tonight, maybe that channelure is too deep.
 
Thanks for the info. We full length sized, trimmed, bullets cab be twisted by fingers. I thought about ordering a crimp die, may be the answer. They all chamber and its a beginning load from Lyman 43th or 44th edit so I'll shoot them all off in my 99. I was just worried about working the brass too much.
Thanks again.
 
Is your rifle chambered 303 British, I could not find any loading data for a 303 Savage. There is loading data for a 300 Savage but that takes 30 Cal. bullets and there is loading data for 303 British which takes a larger dia. bullet like a .311" too a .312" Dia. bullet.

Sounds to me like you have a 303Brtiish chamber in a Savage rifle.
 
Originally Posted By: DABIs your rifle chambered 303 British, I could not find any loading data for a 303 Savage. There is loading data for a 300 Savage but that takes 30 Cal. bullets and there is loading data for 303 British which takes a larger dia. bullet like a .311" too a .312" Dia. bullet.

Sounds to me like you have a 303Brtiish chamber in a Savage rifle.

here is a link for a 303 savage

303 savage


To the OP, listen to Catshooter he's right on the money.
 
Masshunter, please post the results of your loading progress. I am infatuated with a .303 Savage at my favorite gunshop and doubt it will be going anywhere soon. If it waits long enough, it'll be mine.
 
Thanks but I had the same conversation with RCBS cust servce yesterday. We have Sav 99's from the 1930's in 303 Savage.
You have to go back a ways to find data. We're going to start from scratch the next night our wives are quilting. Good call though, younger clerks have tried to sell me 303Brit
 
I'll post the results, won't be untill next wk. I had a nice talk with RCBS cust. serv. yesterday, he told me start from scratch again befor shelling out $75. for a new seater die, no crimper die available. Grab that 99, they are sweet shooters,& all the ammo you can find. Mine is a takedown, my buddy just found a solid frame, thats what started this. The 303 pretty much mirrors the 30/30, Lyman 44th manual has data. The only thing I killed with mine was a lion in Utah.
 
Originally Posted By: masshunterThanks but I had the same conversation with RCBS cust servce yesterday. We have Sav 99's from the 1930's in 303 Savage.
You have to go back a ways to find data. We're going to start from scratch the next night our wives are quilting. Good call though, younger clerks have tried to sell me 303Brit

I remember the 303 Savage from when I was a kidlet and we sold some, but it was rare then (and that was in the dark ages
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When you size the next bunch of fired cases - it the bullet turns in the case, try this:

Take the whole expander out of the die and size it again - try the bullet, and if that solves the problem, then the expander of too large.

There are a few ways to solve this - the easy one is to send the die to RCBS with a few cases and tell them what is wrong, and let them fix it.

Or you could measure the expander, and call RCBS. Tell them the problem and ask them to send you the next smaller expander ball. They will do it for free. Then you just change them.

Since the 303 Savage is VERY rare, almost unheard of, it is possible that one of the minimum wage lackies took the expander ball from the 303 Brit box and you are living with an expander intended for a .312 bullet in a die for a cartridge that uses a .308 bullet.


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Thanks Cathunter, I think we should have miked it when we first had the issue. I've had these dies 20 yrs and we just started to use them. I'd had a lot of factory ammo & was lazy I guess.
 
Originally Posted By: larrOriginally Posted By: DABIs your rifle chambered 303 British, I could not find any loading data for a 303 Savage. There is loading data for a 300 Savage but that takes 30 Cal. bullets and there is loading data for 303 British which takes a larger dia. bullet like a .311" too a .312" Dia. bullet.

Sounds to me like you have a 303Brtiish chamber in a Savage rifle.

here is a link for a 303 savage

303 savage


To the OP, listen to Catshooter he's right on the money.


That is good to know

wasn't trying to give out bad info.
 
Well here is the results of the 303 Sav crimping issue.
OPERATOR ERROR !! WE decided to start again from scratch and
right off found the problem. Normal die adj for seating is to
use a nickle to get 1/16 space. To crimp its 1/8 or 2 nickles.
As we started again we looked around for the second nickle, and right off we knew. A couple minutes and we had it. Loaded 5 dummy rounds, measured O/L length, and ran them thru
the magazine, flawless. Thanks for all the help everyone.
 
Without the crimp are the bullets still loose? They should be tight before a crimp is applied. The crimp prevents setback under recoil.

When I roll crimp, I adjust the die in two stages. After trimming all cases to the same length, I turn the seater die down to touch the case mouth with the ram all the way up. After getting the bullet seated to the crimp grove, I back out the seater stem and crank the die down until it touches the case mouth. Then I turn in the die until I get the proper crimp. Finally, with the ram up I turn in the seater plug until it is firm on the bullet.
 
Yes, we did put a slight crimp like you said but they were tight right away. We just screwed up that first step, and thats why we were crushing the shoulders when we tried to get the crimp. That 1/16th we missed was the key. I guess the only answer is to buy more rifles in more calibers so we can stay in practice setting up dies !
 
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