Understanding Night Vision Terminology

6mm06

6mm06

Well-known member

Like many others, I am still learning about night vision though I admit I have come a long way from reading posts that some of you guys have done. I do have some questions just to fully understand some terminology and importance of certain features.

(1) Manual Gain. Is that similar to what is on the Photon, that allows to brighten or darken the view? How important is it in a Gen 2 or 3 scope? Would you consider it a "must have?"

(2) Gated or Autogated - Are those two words the same thing? If I understand correctly, autogated helps a scope from shutting down due to the bloom effect caused by a round firing. Is that correct?

(3) Thin-filmed and Unfilmed - Which is better? Which is more recoil proof, if indeed one is better than the other?

(4) Bering Optic scopes? I see they have scopes similar to the Night Optics ones. How good are Bering Optic scopes? Are they on par with Night Optics brand?

I am just trying to learn more and / or confirm what I may understand. I appreciate your responses and I'm sure there are a lot of other guys like me who may like to hear about these things.


 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Like many others, I am still learning about night vision though I admit I have come a long way from reading posts that some of you guys have done. I do have some questions just to fully understand some terminology and importance of certain features.

(1) Manual Gain. Is that similar to what is on the Photon, that allows to brighten or darken the view? How important is it in a Gen 2 or 3 scope? Would you consider it a "must have?"

Gain is just that, it allows you to brighten or dim the image itself. I find in Gen 3 devices a must have (almost all modern Gen 3 American devices have this feature). I really like the manual gain on actual very dark nights where I am not using any IR light. When the gain is turned up to it's highest level, you will find what we call scintillation (sparkle effect) due to the tube fighting for light. Turning the gain down will actually mitigate this scintillation sparkle effect.

In snow covered or bright lit areas, turning the gain down will also allow for a more comfortable view.

Also another very vital gain purpose is when one may be using their PVS-14 behind a Mini Red Dot Sight such as a EO Tech. Keeping the gain down very low behind these sights and slowly turning the gain up in case the reticle may not be at it's "NV Setting" will save a burned reticle image on your NV tube!

I do not think manual gain is near as important in Gen 2 devices as you always need the highest brightness you can get

(2) Gated or Autogated - Are those two words the same thing? If I understand correctly, autogated helps a scope from shutting down due to the bloom effect caused by a round firing. Is that correct?

Autogated Power supplies (AG)and/or Gated (same thing) and Automatic Brightness Control (ABC) have 2 different effects. AG power supplies (been around for approx. 6-7 years now) that allow the tube to dim down by actually turning the tube on and off thousands of times per second, thus mitigating the amount of bright light entering the tube. The other great feature of modern AG power supplies is while the tube dims down to compensate for light entering the tube, it will not degrade resolution of the tube.

The other technology you hear with all NV units is Automatic Brightness Control, (ABC). All units have ABC, which works differently without AG Power Supplies. It will dim down tubes in the event of high light, but it will also degrade the resolution of the tube, as it's no where near efficient handling high light as the AG power supplies do. ABC will also automatically shut down a tube if the electronics get too much light. I.e., pointing it at the sun, large instant bright muzzle flash.

(3) Thin-filmed and Unfilmed - Which is better? Which is more recoil proof, if indeed one is better than the other?

As for better, unfilmed has an approx 20% better light gathering ability vs. thin filmed, but ONLY in extreme low light with no moon, tree cover etc. Remember, all NV tubes are light amplification devices and need some sort of light to amplify.

L3 tells us their filmless is actually more recoil proof than their thin filmed counterparts which is remarkable. Several years back, it was the quite the opposite. That said we do NOT recommend a PVS-14 to go on anything higher than a 6.8SPC due to it's housing it not built for high recoil.

(4) Bering Optic scopes? I see they have scopes similar to the Night Optics ones. How good are Bering Optic scopes? Are they on par with Night Optics brand?

Bering is also a Russian built system but made on a cheaper level vs. the Night Optics line.

I am just trying to learn more and / or confirm what I may understand. I appreciate your responses and I'm sure there are a lot of other guys like me who may like to hear about these things.




Hi, as always you have great questions that is awesome for new guys learning about NV. I will do my best to explain. See red above for my responses.
 

Thanks Vic. You are always a good source for information of this type and I always value your input.

I am especially glad to hear about the PVS-14 behind a scope such as the EOTEC. I didn't realize the tube could be burned. So, help me understand a bit further if you don't mind. I know that several people use a PVS-14 behind some sort of other optic. Is this burning effect mainly from something like an EOTEC, or does it occur even with a regular daytime scope? And, to lessen the potential of a burnt tube, am I correct that you turn the 14 down to start, but can then turn it up some? Does the problem come about at the beginning of having the 14's gain too high, or just that it's too high at any point? Forgive me if I'm rambling. I guess what I am asking is can you turn the gain up plenty good enough to see well without damaging the 14 tube?

Another question, on the Night Optics D760 Gen 2 scope, I see that the product info suggests using a suppressed rifle or a flash hider. If you don't use those two on a rifle, will the scope shut down completely at the shot, or is it a quick off and back on deal, and will you lose sight of the target?

I also see in many scopes that the green tubes have higher resolution than white phosphor? Does the WP somehow make up for the resolution view or can you really tell much of a difference? Do you consider WP to be better than a green tubed scope? By better, I mean with regards to resolution and being able to see well.

When I look at specs on various scopes, I see that one has manual gain and another one doesn't etc. I'm just trying to understand what features are important to have and what isn't so important. As well, I guess Gen 2's may have different needs than Gen 3's, so I'm just trying to get a better understanding all around.

If you were shopping for a good Gen 2 and a Gen 3 scope, specifically what features would you deem necessary to have on both, and considering using the scopes on maybe calibers up to a .308?

Thanks again vic for any info you might give, and for taking time to address these questions.

 
Sorry for the delay, been crazy with the holiday business...My answers below in red again.

Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Thanks Vic. You are always a good source for information of this type and I always value your input.

I am especially glad to hear about the PVS-14 behind a scope such as the EOTEC. I didn't realize the tube could be burned. So, help me understand a bit further if you don't mind. I know that several people use a PVS-14 behind some sort of other optic. Is this burning effect mainly from something like an EOTEC, or does it occur even with a regular daytime scope? And, to lessen the potential of a burnt tube, am I correct that you turn the 14 down to start, but can then turn it up some? Does the problem come about at the beginning of having the 14's gain too high, or just that it's too high at any point? Forgive me if I'm rambling. I guess what I am asking is can you turn the gain up plenty good enough to see well without damaging the 14 tube?

Good questions again. As you know, NVD's are light amplification devices which modern Gen 3 devices can amplify a pin point of light over 30,000 times! They are that sensitive and a marvel of technology. With that said placing an illuminated reticle or dot of any MRDS in such close proximity in front of a tube can cause a burn mark in the tube. NON- Illuminated day scopes will be just fine since they are not illuminated of course.

What I meant about turning the gain down is this..But first let me state that anyone using a EO Tech, Aimpoint or any other illuminated reticle is to be sure the said device has "NV Settings". What his means is the unit is designed to have brightness settings that will not cause tube damage when a NVD is mounted behind these types of optics. The general rule of thumb we also state is, any reticle you can see with your unaided naked eye no matter how dim it appears is too bright for a modern Gen 3 device to sit behind. Almost all NV settings on units such as a EO Tech or Aimpoints are just about invisible with your naked eye.

In the EO Tech's, they actually have a "NV" button that has to be pressed in order to get the reticle into NV MODE. I never liked this feature because it can be easy to THINK one is in NV mode, and if not, when you turn on your PVS-14 behind it, whammo, you have burned a retcile onto ones 3K NVD. This is why when I run a EO out in front I purposely and cautiously leave the gain on the 14 down to the dimmest setting and slowly bring up the gain. If the reticle of the EO starts to get too bright (bloom), I STOP and re-check the EO Tech NV setting. With Aimpoints, they have the 1st 5 dial positions set for NV use which is a cinch to set at the 1st stop (which is the lowest NV setting on unit). I only run position #2 on the Micro T1 and T2 I have which is all I need. Just enough dot to see, not to bright and not too dim with the 14.

Another question, on the Night Optics D760 Gen 2 scope, I see that the product info suggests using a suppressed rifle or a flash hider. If you don't use those two on a rifle, will the scope shut down completely at the shot, or is it a quick off and back on deal, and will you lose sight of the target?
Depending on how bright the flash (I always recommend a good flash suppressor of course), but a sound suppressor is the absolute best flash hider out there!
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With that said, with modern Autogated Power Supply units (still depending on the amount of flash), the NVD may just blink on/off very fast or completely shut off and the unit will have to be powered reset. Once again, it all depends on how bright the flash is.

I also see in many scopes that the green tubes have higher resolution than white phosphor? Does the WP somehow make up for the resolution view or can you really tell much of a difference? Do you consider WP to be better than a green tubed scope? By better, I mean with regards to resolution and being able to see well.
Another good question. The color of the phosphor screen has nothing to do with the resolution, but the reason you see so many WPT Filmless units we sell with higher performance is the filmless technology we spoke of that allows approx. a 20% increase in extremely low light and L3 has really cracked the code with producing ultra hi specs with their filmless line in green and white phosphor.

Also many ask does WPT actually see better vs. green? It's debatable, but some of our Mil users swear by them with most saying it's more comfortable on their eyes when peering into a NVD hours on end and some say they can see better in the shadows.

When I look at specs on various scopes, I see that one has manual gain and another one doesn't etc. I'm just trying to understand what features are important to have and what isn't so important. As well, I guess Gen 2's may have different needs than Gen 3's, so I'm just trying to get a better understanding all around.
Most Gen 2's due to their lack of high end light amplification really do not need manual gain, so not a deciding factor in these units. The biggest advantage of Gen 3 is their resolution and light gathering ability. Most Gen 2's in a dark night, no moon etc. usually need some sort of IR illlumination where many modern Gen 3 units do not. But adding IR Lum can always be a benefit for spotting critters eyes, etc.

If you were shopping for a good Gen 2 and a Gen 3 scope, specifically what features would you deem necessary to have on both, and considering using the scopes on maybe calibers up to a .308?
I feel Gen 2 minimum with a resolution of 42 line pair an up is a great start. Of course all US modern day Gen 3 tubes either from ITT (Harris) and L3 are at 64LP and up. Gen 3 tubes from ITT have a hard time with recoil and could black spot, so look L3 tubes for high recoil and Gen 2 units should have no issue with .308's as well.

Thanks again vic for any info you might give, and for taking time to address these questions.
You're welcome, glad I could help.
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Wow Vic, great information. I really appreciate your time in responding. Education means a lot when considering or choosing night vision and it's good to hear from someone who knows.

Thanks again.
 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Wow Vic, great information. I really appreciate your time in responding. Education means a lot when considering or choosing night vision and it's good to hear from someone who knows.

Thanks again.



You're welcome and thanks for the kind words.
 
as 6mm said above, thank you for taking the time. imo customer service can and will carry a company a long way. so, thank you again vic.
 
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