W 748 and Lightweight .223 Bullets: Field Report

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BuckeyeSpecial

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All:

I posted here 10 days or so ago looking for a starting load for Winchester 748 w/ 40-45 grain bullets as many manuals (including Winchester's) do not list loads for these weight bullets.

I decided on 25 grains of W 748 w/ the Speer 45 gr. SP bullet for a starting load in my .223 bolt action. Guess what...

Today a groundhog gave me the slip into an old corn crib, and after waiting 10 minutes for him to come out, I executed a stalk to the crib entrance; at that moment he unfortunately [for him] came out of his hole; distance was about 25 feet.

The boom and results were most satisfactory - this stuff will work, I think.

Will let you know on longer shot performance as they occur. Good Hunting.
 
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I shoot W748 all the time in a Win. Coyote .223, 40 Gr. Barnes, CCI 450 Primers. Averages around 3600 FPS, .5" groups. Hornady, and Hodgdon have loads. 25 Grs. seems Light to me. 28.6 listed as MAXIMUM
 
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Hecktor:

Indeed 25 grains is light ... it's a "starting load" [per my post] as only older manuals seem to list W 748 with light weight bullets at all.

I don't have access to the current Hornady or Hodgdon manuals bullets....and no one 2 weeks back quoted loads from those respective manuals.

Thanks for the quoted maximums. What specific editions (dates)of those two respective manuals are you referring to?

Winchester's data states 26 grains is MAX with a 50 grain bullet (that point was covered 2 weeks back)...

I have loaded some beyond 25 for future use.
 
K-22:

Your loads are in line with the older manuals circ. 1995 that I have access to for 40 grain bullets; what does your manual list with a 45 grain bullet?

 
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Originally Posted By: BuckeyeSpecialK-22:

Your loads are in line with the older manuals circ. 1995 that I have access to for 40 grain bullets; what does your manual list with a 45 grain bullet?



30.0 max. with a 28.0 starting load. Another manual from the early 80's list 29.0 as max with 27.0 as a starting load.
 
Don't bother with Hodgdon's "current" data for Win 748. You will quickly see that the data is VERY low pressure. There is an argument between them and Ohlin/Winchester about who is responsible for what data....
The forever accuracy load with a 55gr bullet was 26.6 grains.
That is an accuracy load, NOT max. That load in a 16" AR will cycle the action so softly, you won't know it cycled.

I know you are asking about lighter bullets, but the point was to not waste your time with the "current" data.
 
K-22:

Thanks for the info but I already have the older manuals and their respective starting loads.

It is new manual starting load data of W 748 w/ lighter (45 grain bullets to be exact) that I would like to have.
 
Darkker:

We are re-inventing the wheel here...I am seeking new manual starting load data w/ a 45 grain bullet and it appears you do NOT have it...sounds like your load is one you worked up in an AR...and not a new manual data starting load.

That would be fine, BUT I wanted a new manual starting load in a bolt action w/ a 45 grain bullet ( I already have the old data).

I am not interested in a max load, but a reasonable starting load that is not too low, and which is supported by a new load manual citation.

Your comment "...the point was to not waste your time with the current data" is puzzling since no one has yet given me any new data, and no one has previously made the point to ignore new data.

As I am not clairvoyant, I have not yet made the inference you suggest as to ignoring the current/new data.

And, as alluded to previously, Winchester lists even a 55 grain bullet w/ 26.6 grains of W 748 as an overload (1995 Winchester manual pamphlet) while many older manuals circ. mid-1990s do not.

So, starting loads of W 748 TODAY need to apparently be developed without current manual support, use of old manuals, and a leap of faith that Winchester has not changed the composition of W 748 "by much".
 
Originally Posted By: BuckeyeSpecialDarkker:

"... and a leap of faith that Winchester has not changed the composition of W 748 "by much"."

They have not.

Last year, I compared W-748 from 1980 to current production, and there was 10 fps difference in a 222 Mag.
 
Hornaday 8th Edition 45gr bullet 25.5--28.6gr of W748

Nosler Reloading Guide #6 40gr bullet 26--28gr of W748

.223 Remington
 
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Buckeye,
I wasn't clear enough, or you missed my intended point.
You do have access to current Hodgdon data,
www.hodgdon.com
You won't find much useful info there for the reason below.

Ohlin sold their mill in St. Marks, FL a long time ago. General Dynamics owns and operates it; THAT is who actually manufactures Winchester & Hodgdon ball powders. Win 748 is NOT made by Ohlin/Winchester, nor has been for quite some time. Hodgdon has the "rights" to sell the Win. name. According to Hodgdon, They(hodgy) are responsible for promoting and distributing the brand. Ohlin is responsible for the data and testing. Ohlin has not been keeping up their end of the contract(according to Hodgy), so they(Hodgy) have ONLY published what is provided....Which is not much.

The folks who have what appears to be currently tested powder is Lyman, and Sierra. That said, Sierra's data for 223 only(308 is in line) seemed to be a VERY VERY fast lot of it; faster than I have seen in the past decade of using the powder.
I only have the AR pages of Sierra's vol. 5 in front of me, here is the info.

45gr bullets(Sierra)
Starting load is 27.2 gr Max: 27.9 gr.
 
Darrker:

Thanks for that info....I knew none of it! What a mess.

Explains why there is no current lab data for W 748 and starting loads with light bullets.

My extrapolated "safe" starting load of 25 grains under a 45 grain Speer SP killed another monster groundhog last night at 25 yards.

I will keep you posted.
 
Hornaday 8th edition printed in 2010

Nosler #6 printed in 2007

Nosler lists W748 as th most accurate powder tested with a 40gr bullet
 
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Plotthound:

Thanks so much for the NEW info re 2010 and 2007; my Nosler #4 was printed in 1996 so I presumed (wrongly) that the Nosler #6 was printed about 2001....when in fact #6 is 2007.

Looks like the Hornady data from 2010 also agrees with my Hornady manual data from the mid 1990s, both the Nosler and Hornady data you cited will apply directly to my can of W 748 produced in 2011.

Thanks again!
 
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