Want to try Coyote Hunting - Looking for advice on AR's

T

ThePackman

New member
Hi all, thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to respond!

I am looking to buy an RRA upper for Coyote hunting and pairing it with a PSA lower. I was thinking of going with the RRA Coyote rifle. It has a 20" barrel with a 1:9 twist and a free floating barrel. MY only concern is the 1:9 twist. Is 1:9 Ideal for coyotes. How large do folks go up in bullet size and does the 1:9 have substantial loss in range compared to 1:8 or 1:7 due to bullet length limitations. I live in Colorado and might have the opportunity to take some pretty long shots. Is this upper over kill? Will my PSA 18" CHF FN 1:7 (no free floating barrel) do almost as good a job? The AR community sometimes splits hairs on this and I just don't want to blow a bunch of money and not see any gains. Your opinions and advice are much appreciated! Any recommendations on uppers and even lowers are welcome!
 
The upper you have now should do just fine. Have you tested it to see what accuracy potential it has?

You don't need to shoot heavies per se... 55gr-64gr soft points with good shot placement will get it done.

Even with those bullets shots past 300 yards can be tricky if there is wind involved. A large percentage of my shots are well under 200 yards despite being in areas that could offer much longer shots.
 
First, welcome to the forum. This a great place to learn with lots of experts!!
I am not a coyote hunting expert, but have lots of rifle experience. On a guided prairie dog and coyote hunt down in Eads, CO I was a bit surprised when the guide said his clients have more success with a 39gr bullet in 204 Ruger than with 223. Better range, flatter trajectory, and apparently the 39 gr will get it done.
Personally, I love the 204! I would use the 18” 223 and spend the money on a 204.
Will you get better accuracy and velocity from the 20”? Sure. Consider what accuracy are you getting with the 18” non free float barrel. If bad, then do the upgrade. You can google the velocity difference for the 2”. You also lose a little velocity with the 7 twist. Personally I go with a slower twist (12) and shoot lighter bullets for better trajectory. Faster twist allows longer heavier bullets to stabilize which is great if you know range and adjust for drop. That is tough to do when an animal pops up and you only have a little while to get a shot off. Works great for competitions where you know the range.
I’m sure others will chime in here in a while.
Btw - a guided hunt, while not cheap sure teaches you a lot in a short time.
 
Currently the PSA Upper has not been put to use. Further with the ammo shortage it may even be a while before I can go out with a few boxes of ammo and test it out. I weary of how it will perform with 40 grain varmint loads combined with its 1:7 twist.
 
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The 1:9 twist will work fine in the 50-70 gr bullets. You should try a few rounds in your PSA upper from a bench & sand bags. If you can get 1 MOA or less you don't need the RRA. However, I have yet to hear anyone badmouth RRAs. They are well known for their accuracy. The RRA probably has a better trigger than the PSA.
 
The rra may gain you a little bit of accuracy and maybe 80 fps. I would be adding a hotter caliber such as 22 Nosler or 6 Arc as long as you can source ammo. If you reload there is all kinds of options in the AR platform. However, if long range or over 250 is the norm I would stick with a larger cartridge and a longer barrel even if it meant using a bolt action vs .223.
 
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I believe first you need to tell us what ranges you plan on shooting? Long range can mean different things to many people. Some it means anything past 600 yards, and to some 100+ yards. I personally like 50-55gr bullets for coyotes out of my AR15's. 60 VMAX is also a good bullet IMO.

IMO, 300 yards is long range for me. I have shot many of my rifles out to 600 at the rifle range on paper and plates, but never on an animal. I believe 300yds for a 223 is "in general" it's max effective range for coyotes. I'm sure some will disagree.

The slowest twist you can use that stabilizes the bullet you use, will generally gives you best accuracy and the most speed.

I guess I would ask what is the furthest range you can hit a 3-4" circle? That is the max range I would go buy. Adjust accordingly.
 
To me coyote hunting is calling coyotes and most of my shots are 10 and under. My got to bullet in my 16" 1-9 barrel is the 52gr Speer Flatbase HP. I do have a bolt action that started as a 1-9 223 and has been rechambered to 22-204(think 223AI with no fire forming or feed problem)and it dotes on 40gr NBT's

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Good Point! I would like to be able to reach out to 500 yards consistently at the range. I plan to hunt within 300 yards. Really I am looking for a rifle that will shoot 40 to 55 grain bullets at sub moa accuracy. I like 223/5.56 because it is extremely popular, readily available and cheap. I already have piles of it in FMJ for plinking and therefore I have a lot of free brass for reloading.
 
Unless your one he11 of a shot, 500 yard coyotes are not the easiest thing to hit especially off hand or off shooting sticks. If you miss, which most of us do, you just educated a coyote and probably won't see him again. Personally for me, I like my shots as close as I can get them. I'm a decent shot but I won't even consider a 500 yard shot. I know several people can and do make those shots but I don't. I shoot a 52 grain Berger in my 22-250AI and a 60 grain Nosler Varm in my Tikka 223. Both work well.
 
Personally, I would try the psa and if it shows potential I would buy a free float tube for it. Non free float uppers can shoot well, but they are not going to be consistent in their poi when you change how it's supported, therefore of no use to me in the field. However, it could be an accurate barrel and just swapping out the forearm would save some money. The 1-7 should shoot 55s just fine but testing is the only way to know.

And if testing shows the psa to not be accurate at all, then I wouldn't waste my time upgrading and would spring for the RRA, or a new barrel and float tube for the psa. BTW a 1-9 will work just fine up to at least a 69 gr smk.
 
Psychodog mentioned the Nosler 60 varmageddon. It is essentially Nosler's version of the Hornady 60 gr V-max. Both good coyote bullets. I don't shoot at anything over 300yds but right at 300, you betcha if I have a solid rest.
 
The key to reaching out with a .223 is barrel length and velocity along with proper bullet selection. Mediocre loads in short barrels don't kill the same.
 
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Hunters use lighter bullets than target shooters do. The reason is trajectory. Shooting at 300 yards, a heavy match bullet could have around a 12 inch drop. The same 55 grain Nosler BT will have around 8 inches of drop.

The longer barrel keeps trajectory more flat than a shorter barrel. The caveat is that while in the field, it is difficult to judge how far you are shooting. Is that Coyote at 250 yards or 350 yards? If you do not get your hold just right, you may miss or inhumanely wound the animal. All this is not even accounting for wind.

Different bullets behave differently at different velocities. There are many, many threads on the best coyote bullet on this forum. I recommend reading them all. Twice!

Target shooters shoot at known distances. Match bullets can just wound the animal. They can also kill the thing if shot placement is adequate. Different brands behave different at different velocities.

Long range and 223 are funny words to put together. Especially for terminal performance and not target shooting.

If you want to shoot long range at Coyotes in the wind, i recommend reloading, a range finder, a good scope with a bunch of DOPE cards and a 243 Winchester or something similar.

For Coyote hunting in the 50-250 yard range like the vast majority of the population here, that 20 inch 1/9 rifle will be fabulous!

If you want to target shoot with it out to 300 yards use the 70gr Nosler RDF, The 69gr TMK or the the 68gr Hornady match bullets. Berger also makes a nice 73gr bullet that stabilizes in my 1/9's

Next you need a Coyote caller. I have a Lucky Duck, others use Foxpro

Lots of folks like different types of scopes. For the type of terrain and geography in my region a 2x7 fits me perfect. I use Redfield, others will use other types and brands.

Going to the next level, IMO a suppressor is must!

Everybody's opinions are based on the experiences that they have had. I have noticed that proper varmint hunting bullets that strike accurately, and in the vitals at high velocities, drop Coyotes in their tracks. Like a a light switch just got turned off.

I feel so dang good when that happens. When they run a little bit, i always wish i could have done better, by shooting better, judging my distance better, focusing better etc.

Blah Blah Blah
 
For shots past 300 yards I like the 22-250 or .243 but I mainly shoot a .223 for the most part. 55 grain softpoint in the .223 is pretty much my go to bullet these days. Shot over 30 last Winter with that bullet and didn't lose any. Only had to shoot one that I can remember twice at 225 yards. If they spin or fall and start moving shoot them again no matter what range they're at. I've had them get up and run because I thought I made a solid hit on them and I didn't. They're tougher than a person thinks. Bullets aren't expensive enough that I won't shoot a coyote until I know for sure it ain't getting up again.

If you're lookin for less of a mess the softpoint isn't necessarily the answer but they'll be dead for sure if you put it anywhere in the rib cage. But it's gonna come out the other side and on thin skinned animals like bobcats it'll blow a big hole in them sometimes. Not terrible for the most part on coyotes. That's what I like about them though they hold enough of their weight to hit vitals on less than perfect shots which happens sometimes. I just feel that having an entry and an exit wound is better in those situations. They don't bleed a lot as it is so one more hole to leave a trail in case of a wounded coyote increases your chances of finding it.

I'd run what you already have and see how it does. The best way to know what kills coyotes best in that rifle is to try it out. But I don't think you'll see much difference if any depending on what that particular rifle shoots the best. I've killed coyotes with 40,45,50,52,53,55 and 60 grain bullets of different variations in the .223 and with proper shot placement they will all get the job done. Some just get the job done better than others. A softpoint might not be as pretty as a bullet with an orange or red tip on it but that's what I've stuck with as my primary coyote bullet. But that's part of the fun and how you gain knowledge. Try them all and see what results you come up with.
 
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Thanks for the reply! This was informative. Also, by long range I meant relative to varmint 223 ammunition. I am feeling like this 20" 1:9 is a good way to go for coyotes.
 
I have a Lilja 1-8 twist and it shoots the Nosler 50 BT great, so does my 1-12 Shilen, both are 223 AI's. A 1-9 should not be a problem with most 50gr-69gr bullets
 
You have already had a lot of great advice. I'll add my 2 cents.

I understand your desire to stick with a 22 cal or smaller because of the laws in Colorado. If I lived in Colorado, I would also make my primary calling gun a 22 cal.. 6mm/243 are overall better for coyotes at longer ranges in my opinion but you could still get a 500 yard coyote gun in a 22 caliber.

If you really want to shoot long heavy bullets in an AR15, then a fast twist 22 nosler would be a good option. If you are willing to have the extra weight of an AR10, a 22-250 or 22 Creedmoor would be other options you could look at.

I have 3 different 223's and I often choose to use my 223's for calling coyotes over my 22-250 or 6mm Creedmoors. One of my 223's is chambered in standard 223 Rem bolt action, one is a 5.56 off the shelf AR15 and the other is a 223 wylde AR15 that I built from the ground up. I've shot dozens of coyotes with 40 nosler ballistic tips out of my 223 wylde. This combo will shoot 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups on a regular basis. I've also killed at least 100 coyotes with 40gr Nosler Varmageddons. Both bullets are more than enough to kill any coyote as long as I limit my range. They could kill a coyote at 500 yards but I think small 22 cal bullets are a poor choice for long range. "Speed kills" and the little 40 grain bullets loose their velocity more rapidly than long/heavy bullets. Wind drift is also terrible on little bullets. Having less wind drift is the big advantage of using larger/longer bullets for long range shooting.

I've shot 3 of my last 4 mule deer at 500+ yards so I'm not against long range shooting if you can make the shot. I just know I'm not good enough to kill coyotes while calling on a consistent basis at longer ranges. I don't think I've attempt to shoot at 400+ yards at a coyote I've called in several years. I've passed on shooting long range at dozens of coyotes that got away without me ever firing a shot. I often don't even think about shooting until they are less than 200 yards. I just have more confidence in my ability to call a coyote close than to take long range shots at them. I also like watching them come into the call so I'm willing to risk them getting away without me shooting. For me, not shooting long range is better than missing or having to track a wounded coyote. If you really want to kill coyotes at 500 yards, then get out and practice under field conditions on a regular basis. It is possibly to constantly kill coyotes at 500 yards but it will take serious practice to become proficient at.
 
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I would also like to add that I think your current PSA upper without free floated barrel may work just fine. If you can get it to shoot 1 MOA with the bullets you want to use, then the gun isn't likely to limit your ability to kill coyotes you kill. You may want to spend your money on extra practice ammo, a better trigger or something else.

Even though I can shoot my 223 wylde 0.5 MOA while prone on a consistent basis, I can't shoot it near that well off the tripod I use while calling coyotes. In all honesty, I can only shoot about 2 MOA off shooting sticks or my tripod under field conditions. Put the target at 300 yards with a 10 mph crosswind and I may struggle shooting less than a 6" group. Besides the extra confidence a 0.5 MOA gun provides it doesn't make me any more effective at killing called coyotes than my other AR that shoots about 1 MOA.
 


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