Weatherby Vanguard SYN.
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kyotekiller25
Well-known member
aint worth my ding dong...
I had one couple years back in a 300 BEE and it shot great at 100 yards with 180g NBTs and 200g ABs, I'm talking 1/4"-1/2" groups at 100 yards from a bench.
However, when taking it out to 400 yards off a bench, I could never get the same loads to do anythign better then 2 MOA or about 8" group. I dont know why or how thats even possible, but I've never seen a rifle shoot so great at 100 yards, only to shoot like $hit at 400. With the kinda accuracy it was giving at 100 yards, it should have been shooting 2-3" groups at 400 yards, at the very least it should have been doing 1 MOA or other words a 4" group.
I sold the rifle shortly after. It was more of a rifle/caliber to just play around with at the time and it was a back up rifle at that, nothing serious. However if it would have held its accuracy at longer range, I wouldve kept it a while longer or maybe even still have it.
I had one couple years back in a 300 BEE and it shot great at 100 yards with 180g NBTs and 200g ABs, I'm talking 1/4"-1/2" groups at 100 yards from a bench.
However, when taking it out to 400 yards off a bench, I could never get the same loads to do anythign better then 2 MOA or about 8" group. I dont know why or how thats even possible, but I've never seen a rifle shoot so great at 100 yards, only to shoot like $hit at 400. With the kinda accuracy it was giving at 100 yards, it should have been shooting 2-3" groups at 400 yards, at the very least it should have been doing 1 MOA or other words a 4" group.
I sold the rifle shortly after. It was more of a rifle/caliber to just play around with at the time and it was a back up rifle at that, nothing serious. However if it would have held its accuracy at longer range, I wouldve kept it a while longer or maybe even still have it.
jackjacker
New member
I have one in 7mm rem mag. I was about to sell it because I couldn't get any decent groups at 100 yds. I finally found facotry ammo (160g barnes vortex) that grouped at bout 1 moa. I haven't tried any significant distance yet. I will say that the vanguard is picky with ammo and is not really an out of the box shooter. If I had it all to do again, for the same price range I would have gotten a savage edge or axis.
SodakJim
New member
The Vanguard's synthetic stock is it's main problem as it comes from the factory. A decent stable stock and bedding job is the only cure. The action itself is better quality than many in it's price range in my opinion.
Comparing 100 yard accuracy to 400+ yard accuracy is often difficult due to external conditions and the human element. I don't know many shooters that can hold the same sub 1 MOA results at extreme ranges. There gets to be too many variables other than the rifle itself involved. Any rifle with a factory cheap tupperware stock is going to be hard-pressed to deliver 1 MOA groups beyond 400 yards, particularly with factory ammo.
Comparing 100 yard accuracy to 400+ yard accuracy is often difficult due to external conditions and the human element. I don't know many shooters that can hold the same sub 1 MOA results at extreme ranges. There gets to be too many variables other than the rifle itself involved. Any rifle with a factory cheap tupperware stock is going to be hard-pressed to deliver 1 MOA groups beyond 400 yards, particularly with factory ammo.
bustem19
New member
I've got one in the 300 WBY and one in the 270 win. They're great shooting rifles but one thing is for sure and that is a trigger job. The pull on the Vanguards are crazy heavy.
If I was to do it all over again I would either go with the Remmy 700 or spend the extra money and get the Weatherby Sub MOA.
If I was to do it all over again I would either go with the Remmy 700 or spend the extra money and get the Weatherby Sub MOA.
kyotekiller25
Well-known member
Was not factory ammo, was fine tuned handloads, and I'm not an average joe shooter either, I am a LR hunter/shooter so I pay attention to detail and am quite familiar with shooting MOA or less at extended ranges, 400 yards isn't even that far...I had a timney trigger in it set to 1.5lbs, 6-18x leupold w/target knobs, leupold rings/base. Was a solid set up...
With all that said, I've never seen such a swing in accuracy like that with something that shot so good at 100 yards, then go to hel in a hand basket at 400. It was done repeatedly at 400 as well, and the end result was the same, $hitty everytime.
Take my rem 700s for example, everyone when they shoot 1/2 MOA at 100, you can expect them to hold MOA out to around 600 yards off a rest or bipod/prone in good conditions without much of a problem. Its not that hard to hold MOA for 3 shots with a well tuned rifle/load in good conditions with a rest, especially at 400 yards...Like I said, worst case scenario they should have been doing was 1 MOA, and they were still twice that size at 2 MOA. There was no wind, groups were always BIG triangles, no flyers. Groups were always cloverleafs at 100 yards or 1/2" triangles with low ES numbers.
I'm not your average "ding dong" with a rifle shooting at long range. Been doing it for a while now...
With all that said, I've never seen such a swing in accuracy like that with something that shot so good at 100 yards, then go to hel in a hand basket at 400. It was done repeatedly at 400 as well, and the end result was the same, $hitty everytime.
Take my rem 700s for example, everyone when they shoot 1/2 MOA at 100, you can expect them to hold MOA out to around 600 yards off a rest or bipod/prone in good conditions without much of a problem. Its not that hard to hold MOA for 3 shots with a well tuned rifle/load in good conditions with a rest, especially at 400 yards...Like I said, worst case scenario they should have been doing was 1 MOA, and they were still twice that size at 2 MOA. There was no wind, groups were always BIG triangles, no flyers. Groups were always cloverleafs at 100 yards or 1/2" triangles with low ES numbers.
I'm not your average "ding dong" with a rifle shooting at long range. Been doing it for a while now...
SodakJim
New member
Originally Posted By: kyotekiller25
I'm not your average "ding dong" with a rifle shooting at long range. Been doing it for a while now...
I doubt the original poster is asking about a heavily modified rifle. You are likely not talking about a factory synthetic stock either. I'm just trying to keep the comparisons fair.
No one is assuming that your an average "ding dong". Your observations are interesting and I do not doubt them, but they only apply to one specific rifle and that does not prove the entire production of Vanguards will do the same. It seems that you went to great lengths to solve the problem and I find that admirable.
The fact is, I have seen many a Remington 700 (out of the box) that wouldn't do any better at 100 yards and they did not improve with increasing ranges. Any factory rifle at this price point has lots of room for improvement as I'm sure you will agree.
I'm not your average "ding dong" with a rifle shooting at long range. Been doing it for a while now...
I doubt the original poster is asking about a heavily modified rifle. You are likely not talking about a factory synthetic stock either. I'm just trying to keep the comparisons fair.
No one is assuming that your an average "ding dong". Your observations are interesting and I do not doubt them, but they only apply to one specific rifle and that does not prove the entire production of Vanguards will do the same. It seems that you went to great lengths to solve the problem and I find that admirable.
The fact is, I have seen many a Remington 700 (out of the box) that wouldn't do any better at 100 yards and they did not improve with increasing ranges. Any factory rifle at this price point has lots of room for improvement as I'm sure you will agree.
In my opinion,the Vanguard Synthetic is the best value on the market today. For the money, it's just so darn hard to beat. I paid $399.00 for mine(257 Wby) back in December. After mounting a 3x9 Zeiss Conquest scope on it, I have just under 900 bucks total in the whole rig.
Now for the best part. After purchasing the gun and mounting the scope, I literally went straight to the shooting bench without even cleaning the barrel. I had 2 boxes of factory ammo.(100gr sp's & 115 BT's)I shot one fouling shot and went to work. The 100's went 1.5 for three shot's. Thought to myself, "ok, it met the Weatherby guarantee, I'm happy". I next tried the 115 BT's. They went 3 shot's for .60 in! Holy crap, I was pumped. I've never had a new rifle do that well straight out of the box. Since then, I've began handloading for it and have shot several groups under an 1 inch. It's by far been the easiest gun to tune that I've ever owned. I've been so happy with the gun that I purchased another one in 270WSM for my son. It's not quite the shooter my 257 is, but darn close.
Not sure why some people choose to ignore the Vanguard or simply dimiss it as cheap Japanese junk, but I would much prefer a Synthetic Vanny over an entry level Remington or Savage. To each his own I guess. Below is shot number 5,6 and 7 from a brand new Syn Vanguard, literally right out of the box! .60 in.
[img:center]
[/img]
Now for the best part. After purchasing the gun and mounting the scope, I literally went straight to the shooting bench without even cleaning the barrel. I had 2 boxes of factory ammo.(100gr sp's & 115 BT's)I shot one fouling shot and went to work. The 100's went 1.5 for three shot's. Thought to myself, "ok, it met the Weatherby guarantee, I'm happy". I next tried the 115 BT's. They went 3 shot's for .60 in! Holy crap, I was pumped. I've never had a new rifle do that well straight out of the box. Since then, I've began handloading for it and have shot several groups under an 1 inch. It's by far been the easiest gun to tune that I've ever owned. I've been so happy with the gun that I purchased another one in 270WSM for my son. It's not quite the shooter my 257 is, but darn close.
Not sure why some people choose to ignore the Vanguard or simply dimiss it as cheap Japanese junk, but I would much prefer a Synthetic Vanny over an entry level Remington or Savage. To each his own I guess. Below is shot number 5,6 and 7 from a brand new Syn Vanguard, literally right out of the box! .60 in.
[img:center]
EJ Reichenbach
New member
Originally Posted By: bustem19I've got one in the 300 WBY and one in the 270 win. They're great shooting rifles but one thing is for sure and that is a trigger job. The pull on the Vanguards are crazy heavy.
If I was to do it all over again I would either go with the Remmy 700 or spend the extra money and get the Weatherby Sub MOA.
The only thing I dont like about the weatherby bolt on the moa and the mark v is all the lugs, its almost impossible to true all those up if they need it.
If I was to do it all over again I would either go with the Remmy 700 or spend the extra money and get the Weatherby Sub MOA.
The only thing I dont like about the weatherby bolt on the moa and the mark v is all the lugs, its almost impossible to true all those up if they need it.
32tigguy32
New member
I bought my $400 Vanguard 300WSM new in 2003 and it shoots factory Winchester 180gr. Accubonds so well that I never handloaded for it. I took it straight to the "range" from the store and sighted it in. Back then, I didn't adhere to any "clean a new gun first" rule so I sent rounds through it right out of the box. After dialing the scope in, it shot 4 groups of 3 rounds all less than 3/4in measured outside to outside of the bullet holes. It has shot Federal Accubond loads better than 1-1/2in but nothing better than the Winnys. Obviously after 8 years of owning it now, it's a keeper!
Originally Posted By: bustem19I've got one in the 300 WBY and one in the 270 win. They're great shooting rifles but one thing is for sure and that is a trigger job. The pull on the Vanguards are crazy heavy.
If I was to do it all over again I would either go with the Remmy 700 or spend the extra money and get the Weatherby Sub MOA.
The trigger is adjustable on the newer models.
If I was to do it all over again I would either go with the Remmy 700 or spend the extra money and get the Weatherby Sub MOA.
The trigger is adjustable on the newer models.
evilstepdad
New member
Hello,
I bought one in .243 cal. about month ago now and I think of myself as lucky to get the one I got. It had the target in the box and all three shots were touching each other.
The sales person said if this rifle had went through the line within the last two years it would not have made it to the store as they were pulling them and they were going down a different line to be a moa rifle. I measured the group and outside to outside was .50
Took it out and shot it with a buddy of mine and started at 50 yards to get it on paper etc. and after getting the scope adjusted a little had two shots touching, did not go for three as I only had so much ammo with me and wanted to get back to 100 yds.
At 100 yds. the best group I got was right at two inches for three shots with two close to touching and the other one making it a two inch group, this was done off the back of the pu lol. Will try to get out tomorrow if the weather cooperates and take out a shooting bench that my buddy and I just made should have a better grip on it then.
My buddy shot it a lot that day and when he fired the first shot he looked at me and said he wasn't expecting that, the trigger has NO creep and it is a little heavy but not to bad, he told me it is about a hundred times better than the one on his .270, he shoots a savage.
The bolt was very smooth and it was a pleasure to shoot.
I have read a lot of owners who have trigger creep etc. with these but this one does not have that, my buddy was pretty impressed with with the rifle as I was.
.243 is a great round and the rifle for what little time I have had it is great.
Bi-Mart is selling them out and will not carry them anymore and they are selling for $359.99 and when they are gone they are gone.
I bought one in .243 cal. about month ago now and I think of myself as lucky to get the one I got. It had the target in the box and all three shots were touching each other.
The sales person said if this rifle had went through the line within the last two years it would not have made it to the store as they were pulling them and they were going down a different line to be a moa rifle. I measured the group and outside to outside was .50
Took it out and shot it with a buddy of mine and started at 50 yards to get it on paper etc. and after getting the scope adjusted a little had two shots touching, did not go for three as I only had so much ammo with me and wanted to get back to 100 yds.
At 100 yds. the best group I got was right at two inches for three shots with two close to touching and the other one making it a two inch group, this was done off the back of the pu lol. Will try to get out tomorrow if the weather cooperates and take out a shooting bench that my buddy and I just made should have a better grip on it then.
My buddy shot it a lot that day and when he fired the first shot he looked at me and said he wasn't expecting that, the trigger has NO creep and it is a little heavy but not to bad, he told me it is about a hundred times better than the one on his .270, he shoots a savage.
The bolt was very smooth and it was a pleasure to shoot.
I have read a lot of owners who have trigger creep etc. with these but this one does not have that, my buddy was pretty impressed with with the rifle as I was.
.243 is a great round and the rifle for what little time I have had it is great.
Bi-Mart is selling them out and will not carry them anymore and they are selling for $359.99 and when they are gone they are gone.
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Orneryolfart357
New member
You just cant beat a Japanese Weatherby! Howa bout that! lol
They make good shooters. At least mine is.
evilstepdad
New member
LOL, a quick story, have not hunted...other than bird hunting...in years and wanted to get back into it with some varmint hunting and probably deer thus the .243. When I started looking around at rifles there were a lot of offerings and me with not a lot of cash to spend started sorting through them. When I came across the vanguard I saw that the actions etc were made by Howa and while reading some threads I found out that howa also made the actions and barrels for Smith and Wesson rifles back in the day and I just happened to have owned one of those in .243. All I could remember about the rifle was for a .243 it was heavy but it was a tack driver.
TripleDeuce660
Active member
Why buy a vanguard when you could fork out a few more bucks for a tikka that weighs less and needs no work out of the box to shoot moa or better garunteed? if money is the issue then one of the savage/stevens guns will probably keep up with the weatherby for 100 less? Seems like it is in the no mans land between savage/stevens and tikka/cz so it is overlooked.
Orneryolfart357
New member
Shhsh.. Tikkas are a no no in certain circles..lol I like mine however!