mikegranger
Well-known member
Having never even looked through one, I have to ask this question. They seem to have a cult following. Are they that much better than new scopes, or is it a collector thing? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
What is so good about Unertl?
- Thread starter mikegranger
- Start date
The Butcher
New member
Well Mike,
It is sort of a cult thing, but there is more to it than that. And wiley is a little off on his statement "it is mostly a cult of old guys thing" I thought there was better glass out there, and that with the technology today, how could a vintage 1960 Unertl compare. I had a BR Leupold on my .220 swift, straight 24 power. My father-n-law, had a 24X Unertl 2" target on his swift. Both rigs are custom jobs, and for both guns, groups average less than 1/2". I posed the same question to him, and he made a believer out of me. At the time, I could afford any glass I wanted, that was not an issue. We went to the range, and we did what I'll call a return to zero test. 8 clicks up, 8 clicks over, and so on, to make a square. We did this on a grid target. His old Unertl, tore the corners out of the grid. It returned to zero, no problem. We did this three times. He had 4 very small groups printed on the target. My 24X Leupold did not even come close in that test. My groups opened up to over an 1-1/4".
It was evening, and we stayed at the range, until it was almost dark. The light gathering ability of the Unertl, compared to my Leupold, was unbelievable. It was much better. I have been to the Unertl repair shop many times, and ask many questions. It all boils down to the glass. All Unertl glass, is of the best quality out there. Their glass does not need the multicoatings or enhancers to make it good. If the Zeiss and Swarovski's were better choices, why then do the military rifles have New Unertl's mounted on them? I'm talking about (today). Unertl still has the biggest contract with the military. The sniper scopes are 10X with a mildot reticle. They cost $2500 apiece, and the public can purchase them, they just don't say USMC. I own Swarovski binoculars, and they are primo,and great glass. I had a few Zeiss, scopes, but actually like Leupold's features better. But the "old" stuff, is of great quality, and you still see many on long range rifles, and many rifles at the BR matches with Unertl's. You really see the most of them in the smallbore arena. I'm talking about glass that is older than me, (45) still chewing out the 10X ring. I think the European glass is great, but fact is Unertl's glass comes from the same manufacturer it has always come from. I believe it comes from Germany, but don't quote me on it. I can tell you, any rifle that I own and use for groundhogs here in Pa, has a Unertl on it. Yes it is a collectors thing also. Being from the area, I take great pride in such a great product coming from here with such history. The second best thing from Pittsburgh is Heinz Ketchup, and yes the Steelers are going to win the Superbowl. Butcher
It is sort of a cult thing, but there is more to it than that. And wiley is a little off on his statement "it is mostly a cult of old guys thing" I thought there was better glass out there, and that with the technology today, how could a vintage 1960 Unertl compare. I had a BR Leupold on my .220 swift, straight 24 power. My father-n-law, had a 24X Unertl 2" target on his swift. Both rigs are custom jobs, and for both guns, groups average less than 1/2". I posed the same question to him, and he made a believer out of me. At the time, I could afford any glass I wanted, that was not an issue. We went to the range, and we did what I'll call a return to zero test. 8 clicks up, 8 clicks over, and so on, to make a square. We did this on a grid target. His old Unertl, tore the corners out of the grid. It returned to zero, no problem. We did this three times. He had 4 very small groups printed on the target. My 24X Leupold did not even come close in that test. My groups opened up to over an 1-1/4".
It was evening, and we stayed at the range, until it was almost dark. The light gathering ability of the Unertl, compared to my Leupold, was unbelievable. It was much better. I have been to the Unertl repair shop many times, and ask many questions. It all boils down to the glass. All Unertl glass, is of the best quality out there. Their glass does not need the multicoatings or enhancers to make it good. If the Zeiss and Swarovski's were better choices, why then do the military rifles have New Unertl's mounted on them? I'm talking about (today). Unertl still has the biggest contract with the military. The sniper scopes are 10X with a mildot reticle. They cost $2500 apiece, and the public can purchase them, they just don't say USMC. I own Swarovski binoculars, and they are primo,and great glass. I had a few Zeiss, scopes, but actually like Leupold's features better. But the "old" stuff, is of great quality, and you still see many on long range rifles, and many rifles at the BR matches with Unertl's. You really see the most of them in the smallbore arena. I'm talking about glass that is older than me, (45) still chewing out the 10X ring. I think the European glass is great, but fact is Unertl's glass comes from the same manufacturer it has always come from. I believe it comes from Germany, but don't quote me on it. I can tell you, any rifle that I own and use for groundhogs here in Pa, has a Unertl on it. Yes it is a collectors thing also. Being from the area, I take great pride in such a great product coming from here with such history. The second best thing from Pittsburgh is Heinz Ketchup, and yes the Steelers are going to win the Superbowl. Butcher
Martyn4802
New member
Yep,
Unertl's were THE target/varmint scope 40+ years ago. I had a couple of them in the 1950's and 1960's. People buying them now want a "period" scope for their rifles, like the old Winchesters and Remingtons that had barrel mounted scope blocks. I have a Unertl 1 1/2" target scope in 24X that I use on a half dozen early rifles.. It has a "cool" factor to it. The optics are 50 year old technology, so not up to par with currently made scopes. The demand is there for them, so prices are high when you find one.
Don
Unertl's were THE target/varmint scope 40+ years ago. I had a couple of them in the 1950's and 1960's. People buying them now want a "period" scope for their rifles, like the old Winchesters and Remingtons that had barrel mounted scope blocks. I have a Unertl 1 1/2" target scope in 24X that I use on a half dozen early rifles.. It has a "cool" factor to it. The optics are 50 year old technology, so not up to par with currently made scopes. The demand is there for them, so prices are high when you find one.
Don
dan newberry
New member
The USMC are going with S&B these days, assembled by Premier Reticles (likely to get around the "American Made" requirement for government purchases).
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/09/usmc-snipers-to-replace-failing-scopes/index.php
And the Navy Seals use Nightforce NXS's...
I know that there are still lots of Unertls and Leupolds out there. The Army is still using Leupolds as far as I know...
Dan
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/09/usmc-snipers-to-replace-failing-scopes/index.php
And the Navy Seals use Nightforce NXS's...
I know that there are still lots of Unertls and Leupolds out there. The Army is still using Leupolds as far as I know...
Dan
BILLYD
New member
every one comments about unertl. well back in the mid 50's when i was shooting on a rifle team in college the only and i mean only good scope was a unertl, preferably a 10x. when you bought one the first thing to do was ship it off to richard lee to get one of his famous tack hole dots installed.
what a great piece of glass. if you couldn't put 10 out of 10 in the x ring you were a loser. any other american glass at the time could only and kindly be classed as less than suitable. it was like looking outside after you just woke up and looked through chicken coop windows through the morning fog.
unertl was the creme de la creme. why don't i have one now? MONEY!!!!!! maybe someday.
they are a cult thing, and deservedly so. they earned that status with us ol' timers.
i just thought of something, if it weren't for guns, cars and women i could have been a rich man by now. lol
what a great piece of glass. if you couldn't put 10 out of 10 in the x ring you were a loser. any other american glass at the time could only and kindly be classed as less than suitable. it was like looking outside after you just woke up and looked through chicken coop windows through the morning fog.
unertl was the creme de la creme. why don't i have one now? MONEY!!!!!! maybe someday.
they are a cult thing, and deservedly so. they earned that status with us ol' timers.
i just thought of something, if it weren't for guns, cars and women i could have been a rich man by now. lol
I have a R. A. Litschert-Spot Shot on my Win. Model 52 and a Unertl 20X on my Win. Model 52B. Both are prime glass for their day. Can't say they can top what is available today but they are still really good!
Mauser or Jack, do you know anything about the Litschert Optics?
Mauser or Jack, do you know anything about the Litschert Optics?
steve garrett
Well-known member
Quote:
Well Mike,
It is sort of a cult thing, but there is more to it than that. And wiley is a little off on his statement "it is mostly a cult of old guys thing" I thought there was better glass out there, and that with the technology today, how could a vintage 1960 Unertl compare. I had a BR Leupold on my .220 swift, straight 24 power. My father-n-law, had a 24X Unertl 2" target on his swift. Both rigs are custom jobs, and for both guns, groups average less than 1/2". I posed the same question to him, and he made a believer out of me. At the time, I could afford any glass I wanted, that was not an issue. We went to the range, and we did what I'll call a return to zero test. 8 clicks up, 8 clicks over, and so on, to make a square. We did this on a grid target. His old Unertl, tore the corners out of the grid. It returned to zero, no problem. We did this three times. He had 4 very small groups printed on the target. My 24X Leupold did not even come close in that test. My groups opened up to over an 1-1/4".
It was evening, and we stayed at the range, until it was almost dark. The light gathering ability of the Unertl, compared to my Leupold, was unbelievable. It was much better. I have been to the Unertl repair shop many times, and ask many questions. It all boils down to the glass. All Unertl glass, is of the best quality out there. Their glass does not need the multicoatings or enhancers to make it good. If the Zeiss and Swarovski's were better choices, why then do the military rifles have New Unertl's mounted on them? I'm talking about (today). Unertl still has the biggest contract with the military. The sniper scopes are 10X with a mildot reticle. They cost $2500 apiece, and the public can purchase them, they just don't say USMC. I own Swarovski binoculars, and they are primo,and great glass. I had a few Zeiss, scopes, but actually like Leupold's features better. But the "old" stuff, is of great quality, and you still see many on long range rifles, and many rifles at the BR matches with Unertl's. You really see the most of them in the smallbore arena. I'm talking about glass that is older than me, (45) still chewing out the 10X ring. I think the European glass is great, but fact is Unertl's glass comes from the same manufacturer it has always come from. I believe it comes from Germany, but don't quote me on it. I can tell you, any rifle that I own and use for groundhogs here in Pa, has a Unertl on it. Yes it is a collectors thing also. Being from the area, I take great pride in such a great product coming from here with such history. The second best thing from Pittsburgh is Heinz Ketchup, and yes the Steelers are going to win the Superbowl. Butcher
according to a friend who is a weapons expert in the military, they are all switching over to leupold mk 4's and S&B's depending on which branch of service, the unertls are usually on the old guns, not saying they are a bad scope however
Well Mike,
It is sort of a cult thing, but there is more to it than that. And wiley is a little off on his statement "it is mostly a cult of old guys thing" I thought there was better glass out there, and that with the technology today, how could a vintage 1960 Unertl compare. I had a BR Leupold on my .220 swift, straight 24 power. My father-n-law, had a 24X Unertl 2" target on his swift. Both rigs are custom jobs, and for both guns, groups average less than 1/2". I posed the same question to him, and he made a believer out of me. At the time, I could afford any glass I wanted, that was not an issue. We went to the range, and we did what I'll call a return to zero test. 8 clicks up, 8 clicks over, and so on, to make a square. We did this on a grid target. His old Unertl, tore the corners out of the grid. It returned to zero, no problem. We did this three times. He had 4 very small groups printed on the target. My 24X Leupold did not even come close in that test. My groups opened up to over an 1-1/4".
It was evening, and we stayed at the range, until it was almost dark. The light gathering ability of the Unertl, compared to my Leupold, was unbelievable. It was much better. I have been to the Unertl repair shop many times, and ask many questions. It all boils down to the glass. All Unertl glass, is of the best quality out there. Their glass does not need the multicoatings or enhancers to make it good. If the Zeiss and Swarovski's were better choices, why then do the military rifles have New Unertl's mounted on them? I'm talking about (today). Unertl still has the biggest contract with the military. The sniper scopes are 10X with a mildot reticle. They cost $2500 apiece, and the public can purchase them, they just don't say USMC. I own Swarovski binoculars, and they are primo,and great glass. I had a few Zeiss, scopes, but actually like Leupold's features better. But the "old" stuff, is of great quality, and you still see many on long range rifles, and many rifles at the BR matches with Unertl's. You really see the most of them in the smallbore arena. I'm talking about glass that is older than me, (45) still chewing out the 10X ring. I think the European glass is great, but fact is Unertl's glass comes from the same manufacturer it has always come from. I believe it comes from Germany, but don't quote me on it. I can tell you, any rifle that I own and use for groundhogs here in Pa, has a Unertl on it. Yes it is a collectors thing also. Being from the area, I take great pride in such a great product coming from here with such history. The second best thing from Pittsburgh is Heinz Ketchup, and yes the Steelers are going to win the Superbowl. Butcher
according to a friend who is a weapons expert in the military, they are all switching over to leupold mk 4's and S&B's depending on which branch of service, the unertls are usually on the old guns, not saying they are a bad scope however
Steve I have seen them know one guy that has one but I don't think I have even looked down one Have heard nothing bad about them I will email a guy that has one and see what he has to say. Nice choice model 52'sI have one and an Anschutz I like the 52 better. I will let you what I find out Mauser
Steve R A Litschert worked out of Winchester In.in the 30" & 40's his scopes are high quailty at the time and was a cheaper scope at the time to compete with Lyman and of course John Unertl. Winchester custom shop and custom gun makers in the 30's and 40's put them on there high end models. the spot shot I understand is in reference to the objectives Hope it helps a little nothing like a good oldie Mauser
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
There are still a lot of prone matches being won with Unertl and Lyman scopes. I even have a Unertl on my main PD rifle.
Jack
Jack
About 4 years ago, i was at a gun show, I saw a elderly man carring a long box, so, I asked "is that a scope by chance? He said , yes, pulled out a 10X Unertl, never had held one ,but had heard lot's of praise about them, but his/mine has the big coil spring, both metal end caps, and mounts. He told me what he wanted for it, I bought it. It now resides on my Ruger 77V 220 Swift. If looks would sell, this one would be gone a long time ago. When people see it, their jaw just drops! I've had offers of scopes, money, etc, I'm not "old" but these things just have a "thing" about them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif
Thanks for the info Mauser. I bought this rifle coomplete with a hand made case, glove, single shot homemade adapter using a 52 clip with a rod and wood palm hold attached. Not many folks around anymore that know alot about these rifles/optics as they are old. Tracked this one down and was told it belonged to an old NRA Bullseye shooter, 50 yds. Said it belonged to his dad. Seller said he did not know anything about guns and had no use for it. Sold it to me. Rifle is 95%. Took it out, lasered a target at 50 yds, put it on a rest, put 5-shots into almost same hole. Still sighted in as it was when the guys dad used it in matches.
I was told that R.A. did power boost on these and Unertl scopes back in the day. Kinda like Preimer Reticle. This one is 12X or 14X, don't remember. It has plain crosshair and it really good.
I was told that R.A. did power boost on these and Unertl scopes back in the day. Kinda like Preimer Reticle. This one is 12X or 14X, don't remember. It has plain crosshair and it really good.
Looking at the 1963 Shooter's bible, [which I bought with my allowance]:
Lyman 4X $54.50
Weaver K4 $45.00
Redfield 4X $59.50
Leupold 4X $59.50
Bushness 4X $49.50
Kahles 4X $56.00
Stoeger 4X $27.50
Unertl 21.5" long 1" tube 6X, 8X, or 10X with spring and both bases $67.00
I got a Unertl Falcon for $14 at a gun show last year. It is not any better than a Leupold of the same vintage.
Lyman 4X $54.50
Weaver K4 $45.00
Redfield 4X $59.50
Leupold 4X $59.50
Bushness 4X $49.50
Kahles 4X $56.00
Stoeger 4X $27.50
Unertl 21.5" long 1" tube 6X, 8X, or 10X with spring and both bases $67.00
I got a Unertl Falcon for $14 at a gun show last year. It is not any better than a Leupold of the same vintage.
Bayou City Boy
New member
If Unertls were still available today in large numbers, many younger shooters would gladly join the "....cult of old guys.....". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
They were very good quality optics and are still valued if you can find one. They'll hold their own against anything available today. And that's not a knock on today's optics. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
-BCB
They were very good quality optics and are still valued if you can find one. They'll hold their own against anything available today. And that's not a knock on today's optics. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
-BCB
Martyn4802
New member
The Unertl optics were the very best in the 40's, 50's and 60's. So, by those standards, they are equally good today. I love mine, even though the Mitchell glass is far superior by today's standards.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the adjustment system on the old Unertl's. It is far and away superior to any of today's internal adjustment systems, in every respect save for compactness. They are repeatable, and have a mind boggling amount of windage and elevation travel. They are NOT for a hunting rifle like for Deer or Elk, but for woodchucks and target shooting, the old Unertl's are tops in my book.
I think that old John Unertl, not the younger John we refer to a lot, worked for Litschert, or maybe it was Fecker, before he went on his own.
Don
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the adjustment system on the old Unertl's. It is far and away superior to any of today's internal adjustment systems, in every respect save for compactness. They are repeatable, and have a mind boggling amount of windage and elevation travel. They are NOT for a hunting rifle like for Deer or Elk, but for woodchucks and target shooting, the old Unertl's are tops in my book.
I think that old John Unertl, not the younger John we refer to a lot, worked for Litschert, or maybe it was Fecker, before he went on his own.
Don
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