What makes a "Custom" rifle?
- Thread starter pyscodog
- Start date
Originally Posted By: Winny FanThis link will provide a look into the world of true custom guns. Here you will find some of the best custom gun builders who will build a rifle, for example, made to fit your unique hand and arm dimensions with only the highest quality materials and workmanship. Membership for a smith is by invitation only after presenting some of your work for critical analysis by a membership board after being recommended by a current member.
http://www.acgg.org/find/
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately in some ways, some of the best custom smiths are not members of the ACGG simply because their level of skill keeps them in work year around producing only a few high quality rifles each year. Many feel that the "best of the best" is the combination of Dave Miller (metal) and Curt Crum (wood) who built several of the early SCI rifles dedicated to the Big Five in Africa in the 1980's, and who have together built what many feel are the finest custom rifles found in the world today. One of Miller's rifles brought a pricey $205,000 at an SCI convention auction several years ago, and IIRC, it has since sold again for even more money. Again, if my memory serves me well, it was built on a 1909 Argentine Mauser action.
If you ever get the opportunity to see this rifle in person, you will agree that it is indeed a work of art almost beyond comprehension in its finished form. It is tastefully unique in the metal work and stock work involved, but it is first and foremost a "practical" (but very pricey!!) hunting rifle in all aspects.
Interestingly, looking at the offerings of the custom smiths in the ACGG link a number of them are modified production weapons. Douglas Turnbull, for instance, offers a line of 1911s. One, priced at close to $3000, is based on a Springfield Armory frame. Is it a "custom?" I have an SA 1911 that I've put Hogue grips on, lapped the slide/frame, replaced the MS housing with an Ed Brown Chainlink, chucked the guide rod in a drill press and polished it. Next on the list is a trigger job by SA. When I finish, will it be 'custom?' I think to most folks, probably not. If I sent my M700 to Darryl Holland, had it trued, squared, Krieger barreled, and Jewell triggered, would it fit the definition?
Personally, it may "custom'ness" has reached the point of being a meaningless distinction.
http://www.acgg.org/find/
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately in some ways, some of the best custom smiths are not members of the ACGG simply because their level of skill keeps them in work year around producing only a few high quality rifles each year. Many feel that the "best of the best" is the combination of Dave Miller (metal) and Curt Crum (wood) who built several of the early SCI rifles dedicated to the Big Five in Africa in the 1980's, and who have together built what many feel are the finest custom rifles found in the world today. One of Miller's rifles brought a pricey $205,000 at an SCI convention auction several years ago, and IIRC, it has since sold again for even more money. Again, if my memory serves me well, it was built on a 1909 Argentine Mauser action.
If you ever get the opportunity to see this rifle in person, you will agree that it is indeed a work of art almost beyond comprehension in its finished form. It is tastefully unique in the metal work and stock work involved, but it is first and foremost a "practical" (but very pricey!!) hunting rifle in all aspects.
Interestingly, looking at the offerings of the custom smiths in the ACGG link a number of them are modified production weapons. Douglas Turnbull, for instance, offers a line of 1911s. One, priced at close to $3000, is based on a Springfield Armory frame. Is it a "custom?" I have an SA 1911 that I've put Hogue grips on, lapped the slide/frame, replaced the MS housing with an Ed Brown Chainlink, chucked the guide rod in a drill press and polished it. Next on the list is a trigger job by SA. When I finish, will it be 'custom?' I think to most folks, probably not. If I sent my M700 to Darryl Holland, had it trued, squared, Krieger barreled, and Jewell triggered, would it fit the definition?
Personally, it may "custom'ness" has reached the point of being a meaningless distinction.
Last edited:
Winny Fan
New member
Originally Posted By: KlrDrvrOriginally Posted By: Winny FanThis link will provide a look into the world of true custom guns. Here you will find some of the best custom gun builders who will build a rifle, for example, made to fit your unique hand and arm dimensions with only the highest quality materials and workmanship. Membership for a smith is by invitation only after presenting some of your work for critical analysis by a membership board after being recommended by a current member.
http://www.acgg.org/find/
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately in some ways, some of the best custom smiths are not members of the ACGG simply because their level of skill keeps them in work year around producing only a few high quality rifles each year. Many feel that the "best of the best" is the combination of Dave Miller (metal) and Curt Crum (wood) who built several of the early SCI rifles dedicated to the Big Five in Africa in the 1980's, and who have together built what many feel are the finest custom rifles found in the world today. One of Miller's rifles brought a pricey $205,000 at an SCI convention auction several years ago, and IIRC, it has since sold again for even more money. Again, if my memory serves me well, it was built on a 1909 Argentine Mauser action.
If you ever get the opportunity to see this rifle in person, you will agree that it is indeed a work of art almost beyond comprehension in its finished form. It is tastefully unique in the metal work and stock work involved, but it is first and foremost a "practical" (but very pricey!!) hunting rifle in all aspects.
Interestingly, looking at the offerings of the custom smiths in the ACGG link a number of them are modified production weapons. Douglas Turnbull, for instance, offers a line of 1911s. One, priced at close to $3000, is based on a Springfield Armory frame. Is it a "custom?" I have an SA 1911 that I've put Hogue grips on, lapped the slide/frame, replaced the MS housing with an Ed Brown Chainlink, chucked the guide rod in a drill press and polished it. Next on the list is a trigger job by SA. When I finish, will it be 'custom?' I think to most folks, probably not. If I sent my M700 to Darryl Holland, had it trued, squared, Krieger barreled, and Jewell triggered, would it fit the definition?
Personally, it may "custom'ness" has reached the point of being a meaningless distinction.
Your observation is exactly why I made my "Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately in some ways" statement. The hard reality is some of them, by economic necessity, are forced to do mundane work with the hope that their name might sell something. Turnbull, who specializes in restoration work, is a good example. The very good ones stay busy no matter what the economic climate is like.
http://www.acgg.org/find/
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately in some ways, some of the best custom smiths are not members of the ACGG simply because their level of skill keeps them in work year around producing only a few high quality rifles each year. Many feel that the "best of the best" is the combination of Dave Miller (metal) and Curt Crum (wood) who built several of the early SCI rifles dedicated to the Big Five in Africa in the 1980's, and who have together built what many feel are the finest custom rifles found in the world today. One of Miller's rifles brought a pricey $205,000 at an SCI convention auction several years ago, and IIRC, it has since sold again for even more money. Again, if my memory serves me well, it was built on a 1909 Argentine Mauser action.
If you ever get the opportunity to see this rifle in person, you will agree that it is indeed a work of art almost beyond comprehension in its finished form. It is tastefully unique in the metal work and stock work involved, but it is first and foremost a "practical" (but very pricey!!) hunting rifle in all aspects.
Interestingly, looking at the offerings of the custom smiths in the ACGG link a number of them are modified production weapons. Douglas Turnbull, for instance, offers a line of 1911s. One, priced at close to $3000, is based on a Springfield Armory frame. Is it a "custom?" I have an SA 1911 that I've put Hogue grips on, lapped the slide/frame, replaced the MS housing with an Ed Brown Chainlink, chucked the guide rod in a drill press and polished it. Next on the list is a trigger job by SA. When I finish, will it be 'custom?' I think to most folks, probably not. If I sent my M700 to Darryl Holland, had it trued, squared, Krieger barreled, and Jewell triggered, would it fit the definition?
Personally, it may "custom'ness" has reached the point of being a meaningless distinction.
Your observation is exactly why I made my "Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately in some ways" statement. The hard reality is some of them, by economic necessity, are forced to do mundane work with the hope that their name might sell something. Turnbull, who specializes in restoration work, is a good example. The very good ones stay busy no matter what the economic climate is like.
i wouldnt say a custom has to have a bare action.....if i find an old burnt up rem 700 and have my buddy ream out a kreiger or shillen blank in desired cal, take that original stock and bed, float, and refinish....thats custom to me...but an off the shelf, bedded,floated, timney trigg, load devoloped rifle is customized...and darn good enough imo....
knockemdown
New member
Shane, I did just what you described not too long ago!
Had my action trued and a Krieger tube spun on & chambered by a friend.
I relieved the barrel channel & bedded the action into a factory LS stock...
I assembled the bare PT&G bolt w/ pin shroud, ejector, extractor...
had the barreled action Cerakoted by another friend.
I installed & tuned the Rifle Basix trigger...
Installed a 'custom' rail & scope and called it done!
So guys, is that custom enough to be "custom", or does it need a gunsmith's name stamped onto the tube?
Had my action trued and a Krieger tube spun on & chambered by a friend.
I relieved the barrel channel & bedded the action into a factory LS stock...
I assembled the bare PT&G bolt w/ pin shroud, ejector, extractor...
had the barreled action Cerakoted by another friend.
I installed & tuned the Rifle Basix trigger...
Installed a 'custom' rail & scope and called it done!
So guys, is that custom enough to be "custom", or does it need a gunsmith's name stamped onto the tube?
knockemdown
New member
Corey, if ya need a lammy Seven stock to fuss with, I've got one for ya! Its the same stock as above, just all wrecked with Krylon & a KickEEz pad on the butt. Consider that stock yours, for the price of shipping, if ya want it
Just PM me your addy...
coleridge, thanks! It's a straight .22-243, a.k.a. "75Amax launcher-deelux". Just got it all up, so need to shake it out here pretty quick...
coleridge, thanks! It's a straight .22-243, a.k.a. "75Amax launcher-deelux". Just got it all up, so need to shake it out here pretty quick...
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: willy1947Originally Posted By: bfr4570What makes a custom? ALOT OF MONEY
+1 Then more money $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
A true custom rifle is one a stockmaker as fitted the rifle to you. Everything else is changing parts.
A true custom rifle is one a stockmaker as fitted the rifle to you. Everything else is changing parts.
You guys are really hard cases...
If it is custom when it is fitted to you, and you sell it to someone else who is not the same size and build, is it not custom anymore?
If you put it on GunBroker, can you describe it as custom "only if you are 5'11", and 175 pounds with 34" arms"
If it has an adjustable stock for pull and rise, then is it custom for everyone?
Most of the best custom rifles are "parts changed" guns.
Not too many folks can build an action from scratch, and drill/bore and rifle their own barrels.
An Al Biesen rifle is just a parts changed rifle, with a little cosmetic "Fluff"... they go for $10,000 +... why, if they are not custom rifles?
Does the Remington "Custom Shop" build custom guns?
+1 Then more money $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
A true custom rifle is one a stockmaker as fitted the rifle to you. Everything else is changing parts.
A true custom rifle is one a stockmaker as fitted the rifle to you. Everything else is changing parts.
You guys are really hard cases...
If it is custom when it is fitted to you, and you sell it to someone else who is not the same size and build, is it not custom anymore?
If you put it on GunBroker, can you describe it as custom "only if you are 5'11", and 175 pounds with 34" arms"
If it has an adjustable stock for pull and rise, then is it custom for everyone?
Most of the best custom rifles are "parts changed" guns.
Not too many folks can build an action from scratch, and drill/bore and rifle their own barrels.
An Al Biesen rifle is just a parts changed rifle, with a little cosmetic "Fluff"... they go for $10,000 +... why, if they are not custom rifles?
Does the Remington "Custom Shop" build custom guns?
doggin coyotes
Well-known member
I'm a po boy. I consider my rifles customized when they get their first good ding, scratch or gouge. Which usually don't take to long.
ARCOREY
New member
Quote:
A true custom rifle is one a stockmaker as fitted the rifle to you. Everything else is changing parts.
In that event, I've only met one person owning what use to be a custom rifle in my life. My best friends grandfather was blinded in one eye and had his arm blown off on the same side from a dynamite explosion. He made his own Mauser stock and a 22 rifle stock that curved around his torso so he could pinch them in his armpit and shoot. He died and passed them onto my friend which makes them not custom since he doesn't fit them and can't aim with them in that configuration. Of course, technically, all he did was change stocks on both guns.
Custom is a relative term. Something to ponder, Chevy probably made over a million Custom Deluxe pickup trucks. In my opinion they were neither.
A true custom rifle is one a stockmaker as fitted the rifle to you. Everything else is changing parts.
In that event, I've only met one person owning what use to be a custom rifle in my life. My best friends grandfather was blinded in one eye and had his arm blown off on the same side from a dynamite explosion. He made his own Mauser stock and a 22 rifle stock that curved around his torso so he could pinch them in his armpit and shoot. He died and passed them onto my friend which makes them not custom since he doesn't fit them and can't aim with them in that configuration. Of course, technically, all he did was change stocks on both guns.
Custom is a relative term. Something to ponder, Chevy probably made over a million Custom Deluxe pickup trucks. In my opinion they were neither.