Which can handle cold water the best...

MNpurple

New member
I will be getting my first dog soon and was set on a GSP, English Setter or a Weim because majority of my hunting will be for grouse and some pheasants, so I wanted a pointer. But within the last two years I have really started to get into duck hunting and plan to get into it more. Which of my previous pointer choices will be best suited for water and duck hunting in Minnesota, sometimes below freezing temps. Or will none of them be able to handle the cold and I should be looking more closely at labs?
Thanks
MNpurple
 
I'm biased but I'd say to get a lab. If you INSIST on getting a pointer, a GSP will likely do you better. But, of all the breeds you mentioned, none are considered good water dogs and none are considered good retrievers. They may work in early season but will likely not work out for you once you get the second frost.

Have you considered pointing labs? I've had a few over the years. They are fun. Not as stylish as the others but every bit as effective. (frankly, any dog can be trained to point fairly easily.)

I just don't think you'll be happy with those pointing breeds for waterfowl but you can be happy with a lab for upland work.

Randy
 
GWP and DD's will have a nice hard coat for very cold water. You could use a GSP, but not for as long in the cold without a vest. The vest is a saftey hazard for the dog, imho.

None of the pointers will do as well as breeds that are bred for the cold, like chessies and labs, but a nice hard coat will last about as long as you will. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I have to agree with R.B. The pointing lab sounds like the way to go. I hunt partridge in N.E. Wisc. with my lab and we do fine. If you are looking for that "pretty as a picture" point that the pointing breeds are famous for, you won't get it in a Lab. That's just my opinion. On the other hand, I doubt that any pointing breed will live for retrieving in cold water like a lab. A Lab will hunt his heart out for you with pheasants & grouse also. He just won't be as pretty.
 
There are six breeds recognized as Retrievers by the AKC. They are: Labrador Retrievers, Golden Retrievers, Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, Flat Coated Retrievers, Curly Coated Retrievers and Irish Water Spaniels.

The main characteristic of cold water retrievers is their coat. They have a double coat: a soft, downy undercoat that keeps them dry and warm in cold water, and a hard outer coat that helps
them repel water.

To develop a hard coat, a hunting retriever should spend the nights outside. This will help him develop the cold water coat that he will need for duck hunting. It doesn't make sense to let the dog sleep in the warm house, and then expect him to go swim in ice cold water after a duck. The cold nights will help him develop the thick coat, and extra fat insulation he needs for cold water hunting. He can be allowed to visit in the house if you wish, but then return him to his kennel for the night.
 
Wow Randy buker got it right!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Read my lips, Black lab male. tougher than barb wire and nearly as smart. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Actually they are much smarter. I've hunted labradors for several years, both on upland birds and on waterfowl. They take the freezing weather and water. I think a Chesapeake is probably tougher as far as the cold goes, but you are a far, far better man than I, if you enjoy training one.

I have two labs now and was out on Thursday training. This was the first training time out in a few months, because everything has been frozen solid. After our training session, I let my dogs just have a free run. We were beside a dugout that had the ice off it one day, they jumped in and swam as much as they ran around on the prairie.

I also hunt upland birds with these dogs and have no complaints at all. I don't know what more I could want from a dog, that these wouldn't willingly give me.
 
Originally posted by Redfrog:
[qb]Wow Randy buker got it right!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

(snip)

I think a Chesapeake is probably tougher as far as the cold goes, but you are a far, far better man than I, if you enjoy training one.

[/qb]
Thanks for ALL the kind words Redfrog. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I've had at least one chessie along with my labs for the past several years. I think I've owned 8 of them in all. (compared to about 15 labs.) I spent many of those years raising labs for sale. If it hadn't been for part of my living, I'd have had nothing but chessies.

I think chessies are actually easier to train than labs once you finally understand them. Understanding them is the hard part.

Overall, chessies will outhunt a lab over land or water. They aren't as fast or as stylish doing it. But, I find that as I slow down, I don't need a dog that's wired for 220. A slow, methodical dog that never quits is my kind of dog. That dog is a chessie.

Randy
 
I think a Chesapeake is probably tougher as far as the cold goes, but you are a far, far better man than I, if you enjoy training one

Wow!! Randy I'm impressed. I've had 3 chessies/3 wives in my short life /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif and everyone was a chore to train. You are right about understanding them, they have a different outlook on things. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

It's just that ....you know, you can't live with 'em and you can't....live with 'em. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Randy,
I am leaning more and more towards getting a lab (black or choc). I was just wondering if you could recommend any good breeders here in Minnesota (w/health gaurantees and such)?

Thanks
MNpurple
 
I have 2 Chesapeake's (females) I have to dissagree with who said they train hard. Mine are so eager to please. They work so well.I have heard the males are a bit hard headed.. I also think they can take cold weather hunting better then any lab.
 
Mnpurple.

There are a lot of good breeders out there.

I'd have to know a bit more about your experience with dogs and what you expect to know where to steer you.

Send me an email at foxhunter_56308@hotmail.com and I'll try to help you out.

You see, a dog that I might consider to be a good dog for me, might not work at all for you. Maybe you train every day and I wouldn't. Maybe you hunt 55 days a year and I only hunt 2. Maybe you'd keep the dog outside and I'd keep him inside.

Lots of stuff to consider.

Randy
 
Chessie's take the bitter cold better than that Labs will. As far as easier to train, that is up to the dog and it's breeding. I have found both types to be hard headed (males mostly) at times. Lots of Patience, Time and Repetition are what turns things around for the dog usually.

Their are always exceptions to a general rule! However if it is freezing cold and ice hanging off limbs, wind blowing 20 mph I want a Chessie at my side.....If I should get up the nerve to go out hunting that day.

The GSP's are Upland Bird dogs elite! My dogs point stylishly and retrieve, also are steady to shot. They can do in a pinch during the warmer weather for ducks, they don't have the coat that the Labs or Chessie's do to keep their bodies insulated from the cold water.
 
How about a GWP. Wirehair's have a thicker coat and are considered to be a good "versatile" game dog. Have hunted with GWP's many times and all have been hard workers for sure.
 
Rooster yes they are great dogs! However, they are NOT the retreivers that the Labs or Chessie's are as a general rule. Remember I said their are always going to be exceptions to rules.

I have GSP who are going to be very good retrievers when their training is finished in 2 more years. However, once again they will never be able to stand toe to toe with the best retrievers in an open trial.

A good retriever doesn't have to be trained to retrieve, they do it by nature as a general rule, like a pointer points OK and it is breed into them. Most GSP's and GWP's must be "forced broke" before they retrieve to satisfaction and do it in the field consistantly. Finding birds and pointing out for the hunter are their forte.
 
Tonk,

I agree that none of the "pointing" breeds will retrieve like a lab. My #1 hunting dog right now is a choc. lab, so I am well versed on that. She hunts both upland and waterfowl. Actually she prefers upland.

Looking at the original post, "because majority of my hunting will be for grouse and some pheasants, so I wanted a pointer. But within the last two years I have really started to get into duck hunting and plan to get into it more"

I would suggest looking at what % of hunting...upland/waterfowl your going to be doing. I love my lab, but she cannot hang with the pointers in upland hunting. My pointers can run all day and then some. The lab's are just not built for that. **Disclaimer..the ground we hunt out west is very different then MN, in that we can cover vast open ground in a short amount of time.

Picking a one dog arsenal, you are going to have to give up something....so decide which breed serves you best and go for it. Either way, they are great breeds, great partners and lots of fun!

Later!
 
Rooster32.....I was out in your neck of the words last summer visiting the area's. Wow! You do have a lot of very open ground to hunt. I was amazed at the sight of Arches National Park and Cannon Land National Park.

My wife and I spent about a month out there in various places, riding around in her new SUV. However I refused to let her take it where the locals take their jeeps on the trails. It was just to rugged for that kind of trail riding.
 
MNPurple,

I would have to agree with Randy on this topic. Chesapeake's are tough as nails, and will work for you longer then you will want to be out. I have trained 3 Chesapeake's and all of them have been completly different. My personal opinion was that the males were more willing to do what I asked then the female.

I also agree that a lab is a wonderful dog, depending on your personal experience with dog's is what I would advise you to consider in picking a breed. If you get a Chesie, lab, or whatever you decide get him/her as a puppy and spend every minute with that dog you can. Get it around lots of people at a young age, and never never never play tug-a-war with it. I have seen that wreck more would be good dogs then any other thing. It teaches the dog at a young age that it is fun to not give you the bird.

You mentioned you wanted a shorthair also... I can't say enough good things about GSP's. That is my breed of choice for upland hunting. I tried to take him out for ducks, but he didn't last long. I got a black lab for waterfowl now. If I had to do it again I would get a Chessie. After training a few of them, the rumors and horor stories have proven to not be true. They are a wonderful, powerful, long winded breed. Nothing is more enjoyable then haveing a dog that is still giving you 110% after a long day on the field, or the water slew.

If it is feesible to you, get one of each. Dogs are a joy to have around.

But remember, if you want the dog to hunt.... tug-a-war is a sin!

Ryan
 


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