Win 748 powder
- Thread starter crp223
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Widow maker 223
Active member
No it is not. If you develop a hot load now in colder temps, re work up once summer hits.
yotekiller47
Member
I really like it in my 700 LTR. Shoot 50 SBKs really well. I mainly shot it in the summer. Never did use it out of an AR though.
OK, new reloader here, so go easy. Does this temp sensitivity apply to any/all ball powders? Or are some just worse than others? From what I've read, companies like Hodgdon have addressed temp sensitivity with the extreme series of powders, which are extruded. Thanks all in advance!
Plant.One
Well-known member
almost all ball/flake powders are temp sensitive to some degree, some more than others. generally speaking higher temps = higher pressure for the same powder charge.
so finding a max charge load at 20*F that shoots well in your gun and then trying to shoot the same load at 85*F could potentially be a really bad situation.
the way i address this is to do load development at the hottest temps you plan to shoot at. So generally speaking i do my load development when temps are over 70*F in the summer months, and spend all winter doing brass prep and loading off my summer data.
as mentioned above though, sometimes the velocity loss due to temp drop will cause accuracy issues to present themselves.
extruded "extreme" powders do take away most of the temp sensitivity issue, but wont feed as consistently through many powder dispensing systems as ball or flake powders will. So there are some trade off's.
however, if you're developing a hunting load, extruded powders can be used with more traditional powder weighing methods (weighing each charge vs using a powder thrower on the bench or on the press) and then develop a plinking load with a similar point of impact using one of the various ball powders out there for ease of high production. This can be a nice compromise between a high volume shooting load vs a low volume hunting load.
HTH
so finding a max charge load at 20*F that shoots well in your gun and then trying to shoot the same load at 85*F could potentially be a really bad situation.
the way i address this is to do load development at the hottest temps you plan to shoot at. So generally speaking i do my load development when temps are over 70*F in the summer months, and spend all winter doing brass prep and loading off my summer data.
as mentioned above though, sometimes the velocity loss due to temp drop will cause accuracy issues to present themselves.
extruded "extreme" powders do take away most of the temp sensitivity issue, but wont feed as consistently through many powder dispensing systems as ball or flake powders will. So there are some trade off's.
however, if you're developing a hunting load, extruded powders can be used with more traditional powder weighing methods (weighing each charge vs using a powder thrower on the bench or on the press) and then develop a plinking load with a similar point of impact using one of the various ball powders out there for ease of high production. This can be a nice compromise between a high volume shooting load vs a low volume hunting load.
HTH
Thanks Plant.One... now I kind of regret buying some H335 and BL-C(2) for .223 load development. It gets into the 100's here in the summer and down well below freezing in the winter. I suppose if I follow your mantra and do my load development when it's hot, I may be OK, but my accuracy may drop in the winter when it gets cold.
Plant.One
Well-known member
dont regret it just yet. H335 is a fantastic powder for 223 sized cases. I cant speak for BL-C(2) as i havent used it, but i read many great things about it as well.
only testing will show for sure, but i personally would want to redo any load developement done in the winter to verify that the load is still safe in your firearm.
the further you are down from a max charge, it stands to reason that the less this will likely be an issue - from a safety standpoint anyway. but again if you're going to go there - test, test, and test again!
i dont think its possible to be "TOO SAFE" when dealing with reloading.
only testing will show for sure, but i personally would want to redo any load developement done in the winter to verify that the load is still safe in your firearm.
the further you are down from a max charge, it stands to reason that the less this will likely be an issue - from a safety standpoint anyway. but again if you're going to go there - test, test, and test again!
i dont think its possible to be "TOO SAFE" when dealing with reloading.
IMR has their temp stable powders with the "enduron" line now as well. I've not messed with any of those. I haven't experimented with 8208 XBR yet but it's temp stable and I've heard good reports about it in 223. But don't let temp sensitivity discourage you from using a powder, just be aware of it. I personally love ball powders, especially since I generally hang in the middle of the data.
Mattlock, if you shoot in 100* temps, work up loads at 85*, you will be ok at 100* if you don't let
your ammo cook in the hot sun, keep a towel over your ammo.
Also, for hunting below 32*, work up a load at 40-45*, again, you will learn a lot.
I shot cases of H335, 748, C2, 760 in 95-105* temps in S.Dakota shooting p. dogs.
YOu just do not load a max load when you know you are going to be shooting in Hot weather, and trust you 85* temp load as long as it is not a REd Line Max load, I will usually back off 1.5-2.0g from what I know is a MAX LOAD FOR THAT RIFLE.
your ammo cook in the hot sun, keep a towel over your ammo.
Also, for hunting below 32*, work up a load at 40-45*, again, you will learn a lot.
I shot cases of H335, 748, C2, 760 in 95-105* temps in S.Dakota shooting p. dogs.
YOu just do not load a max load when you know you are going to be shooting in Hot weather, and trust you 85* temp load as long as it is not a REd Line Max load, I will usually back off 1.5-2.0g from what I know is a MAX LOAD FOR THAT RIFLE.
cherokeetracker
New member
+1 on what Ackleyman said I also have shot a lot of Pdogs but in Wyoming and New Mexico and sometimes it gets hot and not if, but when the rifle starts getting warm things can change.
Varget changes the least of all the powders. But ball powders or extruded can be used with excellent results. If you do not have a chronograph. Then by all means get one. They are really a friend to you when this sort of question comes up.
We have checked loads when it gets over 100 degrees here in Texas. I like to back off at minimum 2 grains of powder when it gets towards summer. If I have to I keep ammo on ice or in the shade and use towels (sometimes wet towels) for cover.
I am going to post a long but relevant, list of powders and temp affects. I did not do this testing but we can learn from it. It also may not be exact but it will at least give us guidelines.
As most of us know,, Each load and gun is different and so different results will vary and that is to be expected.
This how much velocity is lost due to 1 degree in temp change. Being the colder it gets the slower the velocity is.
HS-6 1.21fps per *
H110/W296 1.24 fps per *
Imr4227 1.17fps per *
Lil’ Gun 1.31 fps per *
RL10x .71 fps per*
Benchmark .44 fps per *
Imr3031 .73 fps per *
Imr8208xbr .59 fps per *
H4895 .23 fps per *
Alliant Varmint pro .89 fps per *
Alliant AR comp .77 fps per *
Varget .19 fps per *
W748 1.32 fps per *
Imr4064 .53 fps per *
Ramshot Tac .91 fps per *
Imr4895 .87 fps per *
AA4064 1.11 fps per *
AA2520 .98 fps per *
RL15 1.52 fps per * from 50* and up
PP2000MR .99 fps per *
Imr4320 1.32 fps per *
Ramshot Biggame .98 fps per *
H380 1.44 fps per *
VV N150 1.08 fps per *
H414/W760 1.42 fps per *
Imr4350 .64 fps per *
AA4350 .47 fps per *
H4350 .29 fps per *
RL17 1.42 fps per *
Hybrid 100v .78 fps per *
RL19 1.61 fps per *
VV N160 1.24 fps per *
Imr4831 1.19 fps per *
Ramshot Hunter .86 fps per *
H4831 .36 fps per *
RL22 1.71 fps per *
Imr7828 1.36 fps per *
Magpro 1.01 fps per *
H1000 .21 fps per *
RL25 1.59 fps per *
Ramshot Magnum .87 fps per *
Retumbo .49 fps per *
US869 1.68 fps per *
H50bmg 1
Varget changes the least of all the powders. But ball powders or extruded can be used with excellent results. If you do not have a chronograph. Then by all means get one. They are really a friend to you when this sort of question comes up.
We have checked loads when it gets over 100 degrees here in Texas. I like to back off at minimum 2 grains of powder when it gets towards summer. If I have to I keep ammo on ice or in the shade and use towels (sometimes wet towels) for cover.
I am going to post a long but relevant, list of powders and temp affects. I did not do this testing but we can learn from it. It also may not be exact but it will at least give us guidelines.
As most of us know,, Each load and gun is different and so different results will vary and that is to be expected.
This how much velocity is lost due to 1 degree in temp change. Being the colder it gets the slower the velocity is.
HS-6 1.21fps per *
H110/W296 1.24 fps per *
Imr4227 1.17fps per *
Lil’ Gun 1.31 fps per *
RL10x .71 fps per*
Benchmark .44 fps per *
Imr3031 .73 fps per *
Imr8208xbr .59 fps per *
H4895 .23 fps per *
Alliant Varmint pro .89 fps per *
Alliant AR comp .77 fps per *
Varget .19 fps per *
W748 1.32 fps per *
Imr4064 .53 fps per *
Ramshot Tac .91 fps per *
Imr4895 .87 fps per *
AA4064 1.11 fps per *
AA2520 .98 fps per *
RL15 1.52 fps per * from 50* and up
PP2000MR .99 fps per *
Imr4320 1.32 fps per *
Ramshot Biggame .98 fps per *
H380 1.44 fps per *
VV N150 1.08 fps per *
H414/W760 1.42 fps per *
Imr4350 .64 fps per *
AA4350 .47 fps per *
H4350 .29 fps per *
RL17 1.42 fps per *
Hybrid 100v .78 fps per *
RL19 1.61 fps per *
VV N160 1.24 fps per *
Imr4831 1.19 fps per *
Ramshot Hunter .86 fps per *
H4831 .36 fps per *
RL22 1.71 fps per *
Imr7828 1.36 fps per *
Magpro 1.01 fps per *
H1000 .21 fps per *
RL25 1.59 fps per *
Ramshot Magnum .87 fps per *
Retumbo .49 fps per *
US869 1.68 fps per *
H50bmg 1
cherokeetracker
New member
I like W748 for its intended use. You are going to learn that each powder burns with a different temperature as well as the different burn rate. These are 2 completely different things. Quick Load has some of that data for example.
Burn rates are How a powder burns,,,, and this is determined with what additives are added to the main mixture, and also what is the main mix. Single base or double base.
W748 does actually burn cooler than several powders. Rate is how fast it burns.
Slower burning powders have a more gradual pressure curve than say a pistol powder that will have a sharp curve. This means difference in how a gun reacts or in other words how it kicks.
Burn rates are How a powder burns,,,, and this is determined with what additives are added to the main mixture, and also what is the main mix. Single base or double base.
W748 does actually burn cooler than several powders. Rate is how fast it burns.
Slower burning powders have a more gradual pressure curve than say a pistol powder that will have a sharp curve. This means difference in how a gun reacts or in other words how it kicks.
Originally Posted By: MatlockThanks for the info, ackleyman and cherokeetracker! Luckily I've got an experienced reloader in Rustydust helping me get going with this hobby. Can't wait until it warms up a bit so I can finish my bench and finally get to reloading.
Well that's great to have someone to guide you.
Make sure he shuts off the I Love Lucy reruns on the tv overhead
so there are no distractions.
Well that's great to have someone to guide you.
Make sure he shuts off the I Love Lucy reruns on the tv overhead
so there are no distractions.