Your thoughts?

DoubleLungRage

DoubleLungRage

Well-known member
I've been shooting the 6mm ARC Druid Hill 75gr Vmax for over a year now and until recently I have been very pleased with it. As long as the shot was somewhere near the vitals it was bang flop, even on really big coyotes. Heck, even shots that were "bad" usually still resulted in a bang flop. It was pretty amazing. Now, if I go back say the last ten coyotes that I've shot, something has changed. There have been a few that I literally drilled right through the heart/lungs/etc. and they still run. They die within 50 yards usually.

The only thing that I have noticed that seems different is on the shots that the coyotes run there is a lot more seen damage. Such as the insides turned into jelly, half the heart blown out the back of the coyote, etc. Now take the coyotes that I get a nice clean entrance and nice clean exit, they seem to be the ones that bang flop. Which leaves me scratching my head because I would think that it should be the other way around?

Unfortunately, I do not have a chrono to compare the speeds between each new lot of ammo.

So what are your thoughts?

Difference in speed of the ammo? Just a coincidence? Coyotes have discovered kevlar? I was just getting lucky with all the other bang flops?
 
What you’re describing is exactly what I ran into this year with my deer ammo. Same brand, same weight, same everything except all new boxes.

Prior to this year, it was “bang flop”. This year it was run 50-100yds on every deer. One deer CJ shot was his heart plugging up the exit. Luckily we saw all 19 deer fall because all exits were blocked with inside parts. It’s like an implosion vs an explosion.
 
I thought the 75gr vmax in my 6arc was going to be the deal for me after a few discussions with you about it last year and having a couple kills with it to end my season. This year I went out for a summer hunt in August (which I've never done before) and had one in range at about the 4-5 minute mark. Had what appeared to be a good hit. Video showed a chunk of something fly off the coyote and it dropped to the ground immediately. It was way early in the set so I kept scanning to see if there was another one with it somewhere. I no more scanned way left, and then back to the right and the coyote was gone. Long story short, I never ended up finding the coyote. That's was it for me with that rifle. I'm back to the 6.5CM and 95 vmax. Not having a good season so far, but the first one back with the 6.5 was a bang flop. I'm not sure what it is with that 6arc, but it's just not for me......
 
I have been out of the game for several years but spent about 30 in the custom ammunition manufacturing which naturally required a lot of testing. Bullet manufacturers often change jacket and or core without telling us. In defense of the makers, they may specify a certain alloy from the mill they buy from but have no control over what is sent to them, most of the time they get what they ordered but sometimes not, sometimes it’s accidental sometime it’s deliberate. Most of our bullet makers are very diligent but changes happen, Iv seen it too many times
 
In my experience, True bang flops happen when you shock their entire central nervous system. High shoulder straight up the front leg. Tear up their heart and lungs but also shock their spinal chord and they might give you a leg kick and a tail spin but don’t move.

Shoot them behind the shoulder and it’s 50/50 on what they’re going to do. Sometimes they spin, yip and tip over. Other times they find a gear not realizing they should be dead yet.
 
hunt0168 said:
In my experience, True bang flops happen when you shock their entire central nervous system. High shoulder straight up the front leg. Tear up their heart and lungs but also shock their spinal chord and they might give you a leg kick and a tail spin but don’t move.

Shoot them behind the shoulder and it’s 50/50 on what they’re going to do. Sometimes they spin, yip and tip over. Other times they find a gear not realizing they should be dead yet.
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Exactly this. Iv had many bang flops with a .223 and 40gr v max at 3,200fps. Also a few short runners in the past. Shot placement is king. 6arc should be plenty especially with the velocity range of the 75gr v max.
 
I can’t explain the differences with damage you are seeing though. I have witnessed similar results with ammo myself though. I’m not a metallurgist, but maybe the lead alloys have different properties from batch to batch. A little softer or harder I imagine would have different results in how a bullet reacts. I imagine Hornady has a tight tolerance on this, but with the world the way it is these days, supplies the way they are, who knows?
 
I want to throw this out there.

I'm not pointing fingers at the ammo nor caliber.

I'm just curious of what you guys think and have experienced because believe it or not, even with being the pro that I am, I do not know everything.

It could very well be just as Don_P said, some animals just have more grit than others.
 
Ive had the same problem occasionally with my 6.5 and thought the exact same thing, has happened with nosler BT and sierra blitzking ammo... I chalked it up to them particular coyotes was just that much tougher even know coyotes in general have the strongest will to live i feel like out of all the animals I hunt, and if they do run any thats just less distance I have to drag them to the feild edge even know I would rather see them drop instantly.... my favorite shot placement is high shoulder if all possible
 
Hoosier_nitedog said:
Ive had the same problem occasionally with my 6.5 and thought the exact same thing, has happened with nosler BT and sierra blitzking ammo... I chalked it up to them particular coyotes was just that much tougher even know coyotes in general have the strongest will to live i feel like out of all the animals I hunt, and if they do run any thats just less distance I have to drag them to the feild edge even know I would rather see them drop instantly.... my favorite shot placement is high shoulder if all possible
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The problem with runners here in the South is that it's so thick a coyote running only 50-60 yards could easily mean not recovering it.
 
Shot a coyote straight through the boiler room with a 165gr .308 bullet. I heard the hit and knew he was hit, but he took off like Usain Bolt. Thankfully he left a blood trail like it was poured out of a bucket and literally ran until there was no more blood left. All total about 150yds down a feed trail.
 
Sounds like we all have experienced similar. I have noticed this same trend with different rifles and calibers. Several consecutive coyotes go down quick then suddenly I get some runners. I can’t explain it and can only guess as to why. Perhaps it’s a different lot of bullets or ammo, or just that coyotes are individuals and just respond differently. We may never know the real reason, only that it exists.
 
I am always amazed at the resilience of coyotes. I have been running a 6ARC rifle using the Hornady 80 grain ELD-VT bullet. I shot one last week in the chest and it made it 375 yards from where I shot it with a hole in its chest and a broken front right leg. Part of me thought it might have been the bullet but once I recovered it I came to the conclusion that this male was tough as nails.
 

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Spurchaser said:
Shot a coyote straight through the boiler room with a 165gr .308 bullet. I heard the hit and knew he was hit, but he took off like Usain Bolt. Thankfully he left a blood trail like it was poured out of a bucket and literally ran until there was no more blood left. All total about 150yds down a feed trail.
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If you reload, try some 110 Varmageddons or 125gr NBT's; have used both in 30-06 & 308 w/good results on coyotes. Sounds like the 168 didn't open up well, but they are really tough if your bullet pencils through without breaking any bones.
Good job trackin', glad you found him! (y) (y)
 
I’ve always felt that if you have enough rife and the right bullet combination , shot placement is the determining factor.
But there can be mitigating factors. Is the bullet right for the twist, is it a good bullet? If you look at the toughness of the animal sometimes you can throw all those above statements away. Everyone has a WT deer story of a runner.
I shot a buck at about 15 yards with a muzzle loader 100 grains of Pyrodex and a 240 grain bullet. Hit it in the lungs and it kept right on walking,never flinched. Kept right on walking for 20 yards and dropped over. He had a hole in both sides and no blood! What happened??
Soup
 
Lazer32 said:
I am always amazed at the resilience of coyotes. I have been running a 6ARC rifle using the Hornady 80 grain ELD-VT bullet. I shot one last week in the chest and it made it 375 yards from where I shot it with a hole in its chest and a broken front right leg. Part of me thought it might have been the bullet but once I recovered it I came to the conclusion that this male was tough as nails.
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Amazing
 
soup said:
I shot a buck at about 15 yards with a muzzle loader 100 grains of Pyrodex and a 240 grain bullet. Hit it in the lungs and it kept right on walking,never flinched. Kept right on walking for 20 yards and dropped over. He had a hole in both sides and no blood! What happened??
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Have had that happen on deer on more than one occasion. I suspect that either it is not bleeding enough internally to fill the chest cavity up to the bullet holes or shredded lung (etc) tissue plugs up the exit hole and prevents bleeding.

Good example of that was this eland. Perfect heart/lung shot, complete passthrough w/300 grain Swift A Frame bullet. As would be expected, animal did not flinch (2000# critter), but he ran 50-60 yards back into the brush. There was a good blood trail for 20 yards or so from both sides, then tapered off. A mesquite tree a bit farther along looked like it had been generously "toilet papered" w/red paper up to 6' or so above the ground and the animal made it another 10-15 yards before collapsing.
The bullet had taken the entire top off his heart (size of a football) and the aorta with it before exiting. Figured the internal bleeding carried tissue into the bullet wounds, sealing them off and he stopped by the mesquite tree coughing up more tissue before collapsing.
Red spot on shoulder is exit wound and the dark spot about 6" above and slightly left is where my second bullet lodged. I made a hasty poor shot as he ran into the brush which clipped last rib and traveled just over 30", lodging just behind the shoulder.
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Those A Frames are tough bullets:
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hm1996 said:
If you reload, try some 110 Varmageddons or 125gr NBT's; have used both in 30-06 & 308 w/good results on coyotes. Sounds like the 168 didn't open up well, but they are really tough if your bullet pencils through without breaking any bones.
Good job trackin', glad you found him! (y) (y)
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Already switched to the 110gr Varmageddons in the SFAR and have dropped coyotes and hogs with them.
 
There's one thing I've learned for sure over the years shooting various animals... some results are the same with like hits, some are not. Just because a specific shot resulted in a DRT on one occasion does not mean it will happen for every other like occasion. Each animal kill is as different as it is alike IMO, especially when you don't make a solid CNS hit.
 
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