30-30 has me stumped! Can't match factory ammo

204 AR

204 AR

Well-known member
A couple weeks ago I got a new Marlin Trapper 336, I've been wanted a threaded lever gun for awhile. Pretty sweet looking rifle.

Long story short, I've been pulling out my remaining hair getting it to shoot my ammo. It has a lot of vertical dispersion, and it hasn't mattered what I've tried with powder charge, crimp or no crimp, annealing, I even tried Magnum primers, I keep thinking I have an ignition problem but Chrono numbers are very consistent. Using 160 ftx and mostly Lever powder, Fiochi primers. I did try a few loads with 8208 also.

So here's what's insulting but at the same time good news, factory Hornady 160 Lever evolution loads bug hole. No vertical dispersion. Using the same bullets. I'm about to just buy a case of it but I'm worried the newer lot will not be as good, my boxes are from about 2008 or 9. FWIW there is no crimp apparent on these factory loads.

I think my last effort is to try cci 200's but in my past tests with different rifles the Fiochi gave identical speeds and accuracy so I'm not very hopeful. I have not been using the Hornady brass as I remember it being almost impossible to prime. I'm sure on newer lots that's been corrected.

I did mess around with relieving some forearm pressure but I'm convinced it's not a gun problem as I've never gotten a bad group with the factory ammo. It also prints to the left of my loads, I keep thinking that's a clue. I've matched the oal length. Have not messed with neck tension other than trying different degrees of crimp.
 
I have heard (not verified) the Hornady LeverE ammo is different powder than leverE we get. Mine is an old 336, SIL challenged me to a 'target' dual, his 308ME factory ammo vs mine. He won but not by much (3 touching vs 3 not quite touching). I use LeverE, CCI LPR and the FTX. I use Hornady die set & FCD. RCBS powder dumper - no trickling. I'll measure and post OAL for you.
 
I've heard and believe it on the powder, they are not using canister grade powder and have different ones for the different lever cartridges.

I just tested cci's, same results. I have been thinking about the fcd. I worked on charge weights yesterday and it did seem to tighten up as I went up and I settled on 35.8 which is over hodgdon's max by .3 but under Hornady's which is 37. Total group size is roughly 2" at 100 which I could probably live with if I had to, but I know it can do better as my average with 5 groups of factory is much better! And I hate vertical dispersion.

I did make a great plinker load with 150 Xtreme plated, which are about 11 cents each, using Unique, at about 1550 fps. Very fun suppressed and accurate. I need some trail boss to make up some subs with those but that stuff is unicorn dust right now. My attempts with unique and other pistol powders for subs was dismal as it's all too sensitive to where it's at in the case with those low charges.

Incidentally, my 1964 model 336 Texan loves my loads better than this lot of factory. My 1993 model 94AE is decent but more inconsistent with anything. Really love the way it carries though. I've read those 308ME were a winner, hopefully they bring it back.

Thanks for the reply.
 
204 AR said:
I got a new Marlin Trapper 336, I've been wanted a threaded lever gun for awhile. Pretty sweet looking rifle.
Click to expand...
HEY that is the exact rifle my Daughter is after....

DO not quote me on that Hornady load BUT I "think" it is based off their Leverevolution powder and the Hornady bullets.
According to Hodgdon for the Hornady 160gr FTX ..... 32.0 grs to 35.5C grs,

But like has been mentioned above I'm sure Hornady has "blended" their powder used in the loads they offer. To me makes sense.
 
Mine is 2000 Marlin made, microgroove barrel. OAL is 2,563 - 2.133 using Hornady ogive gauge. I do no seat to the cannular nor jam the lands. Like all powders, actual burn is better at higher pressure. Yrs ago a fellow with pressure measuring stuff ran some of my loads, curves pretty much matched what I get with GRT. SIL has a bunch of ammo. I reloaded some for him - little interest. He doesn't shoot much. I don't know if Hornady still sells the 160 FTX 308MX bullets, they are slightly different. Do the old $bill around the barrel/fore-end trick. Shouldn't hang up anywhere. Our 'duel' was 100 yds off a lead sled, both 3x9 Nikon scope.
 
Cant help with you issues but RCBS had some reduced loads with red dot 30-30. 175gr bullet 8.0-8.5gr, 187gr Bullet 8.0-9.0gr.

Lyman 115gr 7-10gr
151gr 6.8-9
169gr 6.5-8.5
170 6.5-8.5gr

Research these loads I have not verified them.

My wife has a Winchester 1894 she killed a doe with it last year at 25yds with a Rem reduced recoil 125gr SP. I was impressed. deer was quartering slightly to us, it broke the front leg bone and exited on offside just behind the diaphragm and stuck in a tree 15yds behind the deer. I will be working up some reduced loads sometime for it.
 
I shoot Varget/160's ft in my full length Win 94. I do crimp(2nd step in rcbs seating die after seating to length). I'm sure the factory loads are crimped. Taking mine with to Wy have cow/calf tag and I hope to find one I can stalk to 50-75 yards(no scope).
 
The standard load for old timers was a 170 gr. bullet over 30-31 grs. of IMR-3031. Newer powders have a place, TAC and Varget being two of them. My .30-30 is a woods gun, so flexy-tipped bullets don't offer me anything special. My rifles like the Speer 170 gr. flat tip and those kill deer and hogs well inside the big timber. I use a LEE Factory Crimp Die and crimp in a separate step.
 
I made up a mid range BLC2 load with 150 gr flat nose for my neighbor (during COVID) when he couldn't find ammo. He wanted a lighter recoil load(shoulder surgery). 336 scoped. 2" 5 shot groups were easy(100 yards), but I did go by the lever rule, keep several in the mag tube. Top off as I shot.
 
204 AR said:
A couple weeks ago I got a new Marlin Trapper 336, I've been wanted a threaded lever gun for awhile. Pretty sweet looking rifle.

Long story short, I've been pulling out my remaining hair getting it to shoot my ammo. It has a lot of vertical dispersion, and it hasn't mattered what I've tried with powder charge, crimp or no crimp, annealing, I even tried Magnum primers, I keep thinking I have an ignition problem but Chrono numbers are very consistent. Using 160 ftx and mostly Lever powder, Fiochi primers. I did try a few loads with 8208 also.

So here's what's insulting but at the same time good news, factory Hornady 160 Lever evolution loads bug hole. No vertical dispersion. Using the same bullets. I'm about to just buy a case of it but I'm worried the newer lot will not be as good, my boxes are from about 2008 or 9. FWIW there is no crimp apparent on these factory loads.

I think my last effort is to try cci 200's but in my past tests with different rifles the Fiochi gave identical speeds and accuracy so I'm not very hopeful. I have not been using the Hornady brass as I remember it being almost impossible to prime. I'm sure on newer lots that's been corrected.

I did mess around with relieving some forearm pressure but I'm convinced it's not a gun problem as I've never gotten a bad group with the factory ammo. It also prints to the left of my loads, I keep thinking that's a clue. I've matched the oal length. Have not messed with neck tension other than trying different degrees of crimp.
Click to expand...
Curious what yardage we talking about here?
 
I was shooting at 100 and 200, getting vertical and next to no horizontal at both yardages.

So I switched a couple of things after really analyzing my brass and tools. I found I had ton of runout, tracked it to the expander button. So I swapped that out, I had a spare that had been sanded down to .304", so decided I'd get more neck interference also that way. I had some Hornady and Starline brass that hadn't been annealed, and I think that was the biggest problem, I over annealed a batch. Anyway 3 groups today at 200 averaged 3" so I can live with that and now I can find tune from there. Two groups were perfect triangles, one had a bit of a high shot but the third came right back down.

If I can tune the charge to hover around 1 moa for 3 shots, that's all guy can ask of a 336 imo.

I sure appreciate all the feedback, I wasn't sure how much attention a 3030 thread would get on here, probably not many coyotes called to a 336 or 94 but that would be fun!
 
I get spoiled sometimes and expect alot. And sometimes wonder why I reload when factory ammo is so good sometimes.

Actually, why I do it is because when I buy ammo, I have an exact price tag on each shot and I find myself not wanting to shoot at 2 bucks a shot, or even a buck and a half. But when you stock up on powder, primers, and bullets, the dollars are harder to track per shot and it's just a mental thing. I probably spent enough finding this load to buy 4 boxes of factory ammo at least lol.
 
When my buddy and I had custom barreled 22-250's built, we never intended to shoot any factory rds. The reamer was minimum SAAMI and short freebore, some factory rds wouldn't chamber. I was at a farm store and they were clearancing out some ammo, the Win 40 rd varmint packs were 20.00( 55 gr ballistic tips). We both have other factory 22-250's so I bought all of them, I can't load new brass 22-250 for .50/rd. Got home and checked to see if they would chamber in the custom barrel, yep. Later I went to the range and put 3 into same hole. My buddy and I killed a lot of coyote with them, still have a few boxes(ya my wife thought I bought too many also).
 
35.5 gr Lever with Starline brass, 160 gr FTX and a CCI 200 will cut holes @ 100 yards with a 20" 336 micro-groove. Velocity is 2,370 fps.
 
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