Old & Stupid

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William Suter

Well-known member
I guess I'm stupid but old for sure. I was reading about elk hunting on another forum and the question was asked what gun you taking in the woods this year. I assume they are talking elk hunting not deer. One guy said for shot less than 350 yds, a 5.56. Now my stupid part. Why in the hell would you take a 5.56 to kill an elk? Don't start with "shot placement", I've heard it all before. Just because it will doesn't make it the best option. IMO, you owe it to the elk to make a clean kill and who wants to track a wounded elk over hell and back then have to carry it out?
 
We don’t have elk, but i think the latest trend is using the smallest caliber available for all species. Personally I’d rather have to much gun than not enough. Same with coyotes, the smallest I’ll go is a .243.
I also think where you hunt has a lot to do with it. I guess if you can watch your animal after the shot for a long distance and happen to see it fall, then a smaller caliber would work. Down here I need a blood trail. I’ve watched a shot deer run 50yds and couldn’t find it without going to the impact spot and following blood. I need an entrance and exit. A 5.56 on an elk ain’t giving me much of a blood trail. A 5.56 ain’t giving me much of a blood trail on a whitetail either, especially over 200yds.
 
Depends on your school of thought on bullets used. Most guys using 22 cal are shooting 77tmks, 73eldms, 80&88 eldx/eldms. Fragile bullets kill very well. Despite what people think, elk are easy to kill. Punch the lugs or heart and they’re going to die.

I’ve personally used 22-250, 243, 6 & 6.5 creedmoor, 25-06, 308 and 300 win mag on 18 elk. Funny enough, my biggest rodeos have been with 300 win mag and a 190 Accubond. I’m also not as fast on follow up shots with the 300 win mag either.

Now don’t judge me to hard but these past couple years I’ve settled on the 6 creed with a 108 eldm. I’ve had devistating results from sub 80 yards out to 500 yards. I don’t stay off the shoulders either. Been better about taking photos of the wounds too, if you’re interested.

I used a 77 tmk with the 22-250 a few years back and it killed very well. Makes an absolute mess of the vitals.

You’re not getting pass throughs with those bullets for the most part. But in my experience they aren’t on their feet very long. Most of the elk I’ve shot across the board have taken 2-3 bullets. I’ve only had a handful of DRT’s and those have come from the 6.5 CM with a 143 eldx.

I also don’t care how far away they die from the truck or road. I’m young and stupid haha. I hunt elk for that type 2 fun. These pics were all solo pack outs for me over the years

Not trying to convert anyone to the small calibers at all. I’ve shot the big magnums and killed plenty. I’m just more of a wuss these days and prefer less recoil and faster follow up shots.
 

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William Suter said:
I'm not so much saying its wrong
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I will... IT'S Wrong, Stupid, and aggressively irresponsible to shoot a Elk with a 5.56. It's not a question of anything less than ethics.
A 6mm bore should be ok, a 7mm and up would be my preference. Not that I have ever hunted Elk. a 22-250 class round IDK it's velocity could make up for bore size under a certain range. Just my opinion it maybe wrong, or right, but it is mine.
Wait 10 min and I'll tell ya how I really feel about it ....:rolleyes:
 
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Sgt_Mike said:
I will... IT'S Wrong, Stupid, and aggressively irresponsible to shoot a Elk with a 5.56. It's not a question of anything less than ethics.
A 6mm bore should be ok, a 7mm and up would be my preference. Not that I have ever hunted Elk. a 22-250 class round IDK it's velocity could make up for bore size.
Wait 10 min and I'll tell ya how I really feel about it ....:rolleyes:
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There’s a lot of guys doing it with great success. Like thousands of big game kills. Alaskans have been hammering moose and everything else with .223/5.56 forever. Definitely don’t go using FMJs but there’s bullets out there that are lethal!

There’s a thread on rockslide with over 500 pages of .223/5.56 big game kills. It’s nuts to see some of the wound channels. Good bullets kill, not the headstamps.

I won’t use 5.56 because it limits my overall distance. But if I had to, I’d use a 77TMK or 73 eldm and have total confidence with any North American animal.
 
While we do have elk in Oklahoma, most hunts will be on a draw hunt. I think regs are different for private land but I'm not sure. If its a state draw and its once in a lifetime. I would sure take enough gun though.
 
Yeah Elk here in Arkansas as well, only 18 permits for this year on public land (draw).
On private land quota of 6 bulls and 12 antlerless for 2025. Limit of one elk per person /1 Bull on individual landowner property, per year for Boone, Carroll, Madison, Newton and Searcy counties only. Have to call in daily for status, once quota is met it ends the season immediately.
I had to look this up actually, hopefully I read the information correctly.
 
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Elk here in PA as well on a lottery system..we do have some huge ones…Benzette Elk Visitor Center has a Live Cam on their website if you’d like to see them. Not sure on Elk, but deer we have caliber restrictions of .24 or higher, where I’ll be moving to in Virginia it’s .25 minimum. Def restricted for a reason, not that you can’t kill with smaller but much higher probability of ending things quickly and humanely. Heck .22mag or Hornet will work on deer with right shot placement.
 
Spurchaser said:
A 5.56 ain’t giving me much of a blood trail on a whitetail either, especially over 200yds.
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i've seen deer shot with a .223 that looked they have been hit with a 30-06. its all about proper bullet selection.

a .223 or 5.56 is plenty enough for deer size game
 
GC said:
Didn't you guys know? Stunt shooting is what the cool kids do. Only old dudes use .270's, .30-06, and antique cartridges like that.
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Isn’t the 5.56, 308, and 22-250 in the same era of the “antique” cartridges though?

I guess you could argue the twist rates have been changed over the years.
 
Hey now, leave my .308’s out of that comment. 5.56 will kill a deer here, but you better be able to see it fall. Now my .308 will most likely anchor it right there or leave a blood trail a child could follow even through the thickest brush.
 
well they make F350's and 3500's for a reason just like they make a .300 Win Mag,.338, or a 7mm Mag. Big guns for bigger animals, bigger trucks for heavier loads. It's always worked well and will always continue to work well. I was hunting with a fellow one time and he was using an 06 with 180gr., hit a cow in the big shoulder bone and we tracked that animal forever, Finally we heard gunfire OUR direction, a hunter on the ridge above us was finishing off the elk that we were tracking. Lead was flying all around us... and when we got to the ridge all that was left was a gut bag. Big guns with appropriate bullet design are KING, IMO DRT
 
I think it is trendy among some to use 22 centerfires on big game. Yea, it’s legal in many states and it can work but there are some very adequate elk cartridges that are far better choices. I’ve seen elk shot solidly with big guns run 1/4 mile before dropping. Elk are big, tough animals. A 223? Not me.
Many deer have been killed, (or poached), with a 22lr but that doesn’t make it a deer round.
 
I never said a 5.56 won't kill an elk. Just that there re much better options. If I were going I would use a large caliber rifle just for added insurance and I hate tracking. Nothing beats horse power!
 
William Suter said:
I never said a 5.56 won't kill an elk. Just that there re much better options. If I were going I would use a large caliber rifle just for added insurance and I hate tracking. Nothing beats horse power!
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Agree completely. Why would you start to dig a hole with a big spoon when you can use shovel?
 
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