17remhunter
Active member
Just curious. How many of you guys full length size your brass each time? Do you use the Full Length neck bushing dies? Or just neck size only?
Full length sizing or Neck?
- Thread starter 17remhunter
- Start date
Callingyotes
Member
This is what I do. If you only neck size eventually the shoulder is going to need to be pushed back.
cropdamage
Well-known member
Full
spotstalkshoot
Well-known member
My hunting custom barreled/chambered barrels are sized for a stripped bolt free fall with occasional piece slight close resistance(this will be 0.001-0.002 bump). My 1/2 dozen 223 chambered rifles(gas and bolt) are sized to drop in and out of a Lyman ammo checker(lowest step). My 223 sizing results in no forward assist loading in the winter when below zero and unfired rounds always extract easy at the range or at the truck at night. Brass must be lube free for measuring/checking however you do it.
AWS
Custom Accessory Maker & Retired PM Staff
I used to neck size my target stuff but have transitioned everything to FL. Some I do with a body die and a neck bushing die. Some with a Type "S" FL die and some with a standard FL die. Stuff that I shoot the most and expect the most out of get done in bushing dies.
K22-hornet
Well-known member
I use a Lee Collet Die for every cartridge I shoot.
I FL size when required.
I FL size when required.
One of the problems I worked on when shooting competition back in the '80's was bullet runout. Neck turning helped some but finally figured out that my 30-06 cartridge necks were being stretched off center as the case was extracted from sizing die by the expander plug. Shell holders, out of necessity, are a bit sloppy and the case heads, being supported only 180* allow the case to tip slightly as the expander plug traverses case neck.
Not sure when bushing dies came on the market, but before I was aware of such, I contacted RCBS CS and asked them if I sent them a worn out (full length) sizing die, would they ream the neck so that I could eliminate the expander plug when sizing neck turned brass.
They agreed to do so, requesting several fired cases from my rifle.
I made it clear to them that the die was NOT defective, it was simply worn out from many years of service and asked them to advise cost of the service. A couple of weeks later, received what I believe was a brand new die, @ no charge. Now that's customer service!!!! As suspected, runout was reduced considerably.
In the interest of reliable feeding, I never neck sized for my hunting rifles, as the bolt becomes a bit sticky after two or three neck sizings, requiring full length sizing to avoid possible feeding problems in the field.
Not sure when bushing dies came on the market, but before I was aware of such, I contacted RCBS CS and asked them if I sent them a worn out (full length) sizing die, would they ream the neck so that I could eliminate the expander plug when sizing neck turned brass.
They agreed to do so, requesting several fired cases from my rifle.
I made it clear to them that the die was NOT defective, it was simply worn out from many years of service and asked them to advise cost of the service. A couple of weeks later, received what I believe was a brand new die, @ no charge. Now that's customer service!!!! As suspected, runout was reduced considerably.
In the interest of reliable feeding, I never neck sized for my hunting rifles, as the bolt becomes a bit sticky after two or three neck sizings, requiring full length sizing to avoid possible feeding problems in the field.
IndexFinger
Custom Accessory Maker
Many thousands of rounds I 'Neck Size Only' specifically on 308win and 300wm when reloading shooting the same Brass in Same Boltaction .
But for 223/x45 though I just full-length Die on both Boltaction and AR.
Your Not going to get buy with Neck-Only on Cases that are pretty straight-wall with very little body-tapper Reloading. You are pretty much forced have to give some kind of body-bump Die or Full-size in resizing. Like, 6br, Dasher, Creed, ..etc
.
But for 223/x45 though I just full-length Die on both Boltaction and AR.
Your Not going to get buy with Neck-Only on Cases that are pretty straight-wall with very little body-tapper Reloading. You are pretty much forced have to give some kind of body-bump Die or Full-size in resizing. Like, 6br, Dasher, Creed, ..etc
.
17remhunter
Active member
Thanks guys that was very informative
17remhunter
Active member
Do the case shoulders move forward enough each firing to need FL sizing
spotstalkshoot
Well-known member
I have 2 barrels cut with minimum SAAMI spec reamers. Both will have some resistance when once fired brass is rechambered (stripped bolts) headspace was set-- go gage stops the bolt about 1/4 from closed. I could probably neck size those two, one time. But still FL size them for consistency and I don't want a bolt cycling issue in below zero winter temps. Benefit on those two, slow brass length increases(less trimming). Part of that likely due to SAAMI necks so no turning required.
Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
Depends actually on the cartridge, load and the shoulder angle. Usually the more pressure as in hotter loads... yes.
Most I think do it to place the case in the exact same condition for repeatability / accuracy /reliability.
I've been playing with a 6mm Rem Ackley which honestly I've never had to FL size and have only neck sized. I suspect but cant prove it's because of the 40 degree shoulder IDK but after fireforming and then doing multiple firings. I'll lose the brass to the primer pockets loosening up before the need to FL size arise.
This is an anomaly with every other rifle I have does not exhibit this. Could it be the increased case capacity lowering pressure?? or the shoulder angle? IDK .
Other cartridges, yeah I'll do a bump to get to a consistent state of the round. Like I stated usually 1 to 2 thousands gives the best performance in my bolt guns, in the AR's I'll bump up to 4 thousands depending on if the load is to be shared across the other AR's.
hm1996 is correct depending on the load 2-3 is what I get normally if I don't bump the shoulders (vs neck sizing as in way back in the day when it was popular).
Which I do because it pi**es me off when I'm out shooting at rodents / gophers and the round doesn't want to chamber simply because I somehow failed to bump the shoulder.
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If you’re going to neck size you will run into an issue at some point. On top of that your case dimensions will change slightly between firings. Accuracy comes with consistency in everything. Loading, fundamentals, trigger control, how you mount a rifle. If you change things you could get differing results.
Everything I load for after firing they require shoulder bump. I aim for a 2 thou shoulder bump, they move forward on firing and I bump them back to the same point every time. You can strip your bolt and feel the resistance on a fired case vs sized or pull your barrel and drop a fired case in and then sized and see the difference.
I load for 20 tac’s, 223’s, 22bra, 243, 6mm br, 6bra, 6 creed, 25 creed, 25x47, 260 rem, 6.5 prc, 7mm mag, 300 win mag and 300 Norma.
Unless your loading hot hot, new brass might take 2 firings to get to proper chamber dimensions before you can set the die properly
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17remhunter
Active member
Your definitely above the average guy on this sight. I have a question maybe you can help me with it has to do with reloading. Im working up a load for my 17 Remington using a 30 gr bullet. Im trying Vihtavouri 540 powder. A guy posted his load on here and said he is getting 3900 with I believe 26.4 gr. I started at 23. First three shoots cronograph ed at 4000. Flattened primers and cratering. I stopped right there. Can one rifle top out at 26 gr while another topes out at 23????
I don’t own and haven’t reloaded for a 17 rem but I was looking at purchasing one and was looking up loads a few years ago. If I recall vihtavouri never listed n540 on the 17 rem, but did list n140. Don’t quote me but if I remember correctly max load listed was 21.2gr’s. Now box max generally isn’t true max but 26.4grns would most definitely be dangerous in my mind. N540 also runs hotter and higher pressure then n140 so it would be very dangerous in my mind running a load 5gr’s above max in a small case.
With n540 being faster and hotter then n140 I would start slightly below n140 max and work up if your looking for ultimate speed. You know 23gr’s is hot in your set up, so you could load from 21-22.7/.8 area and see if you find something there and before pressure.
As far as 1 guys rifle and loads to another, it’s always best to start below there charge and preferably closer to box charges and work up. My 20 tac is running 39-40gr bullets at 4000-4050fps. Way way faster then most can push a 20 tac and wouldn’t recommend running my load in another rifle. But for me it works and is safe. Some barrels are faster then others, chambers can be cut different causing different pressure spikes, if you don’t clean your barrel you can build a carbon ring giving false pressures on loads.
With the 17 being such a small bore and running high speeds and pressures I’d be willing to bed they are prone to carbon rings and would cause velocity and pressure problems
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