Real world velocity

I'd run that 60 TMK over the 69. It'll run perfectly in a 9 twist. At .223 speeds they worked great inside 200yds, beyond that, I'd get thmb sized exits 50% of the time. Pretty sturdy of a bullet. I'd think they'd be perfect for the 3500fps mv range out to 400yds. The 69's will be even tougher with it's extra shank and in close that's great. but once it gets down in speed I'd imagine would mirror the 60's in a .223.
 
You really are just guessing unless you use a chronograph. Every barrel is a alittle different. Some faster some slower. I guessed my
22-250 AI was running 60 grain Bergers with a 21” barrel at
3600 fps, but once I chronographed them with a garmin they averaged 3680 fps.
 
Are you prioritizing speed over accuracy? If so, may I ask why?

I place optimum accuracy over FPS... the target, dead or alive, isn't going to notice a couple hundred FPS.

A "flatter" trajectory matters not when accuracy is sacrificed for speed.
 
Gsjcky said:
Thx for the info. I shifted gears yesterday, and ordered a 6mm creedmoor. A different rabbit hole.
Click to expand...
I run a 6 creed. You will like the difference in performance over the 22 calls.
75 or 87 vmax smacks coyotes hard. I have never had one hit that didn't stay down.
 
Bowhntr6pt said:
Are you prioritizing speed over accuracy? If so, may I ask why?

I place optimum accuracy over FPS... the target, dead or alive, isn't going to notice a couple hundred FPS.

A "flatter" trajectory matters not when accuracy is sacrificed for speed.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe I ever said anything about speed over accuracy. Of course accuracy must be first and foremost. But without a flat trajectory, why bother? I’m not going to range, or dial coyotes, coming to the call. I’m also trying to to get less wind drift to make hits more likely.
 
Gsjcky said:
I don’t believe I ever said anything about speed over accuracy. Of course accuracy must be first and foremost. But without a flat trajectory, why bother? I’m not going to range, or dial coyotes, coming to the call. I’m also trying to to get less wind drift to make hits more likely.
Click to expand...
 
Gsjcky said:
I don’t believe I ever said anything about speed over accuracy. Of course accuracy must be first and foremost. But without a flat trajectory, why bother? I’m not going to range, or dial coyotes, coming to the call. I’m also trying to to get less wind drift to make hits more likely.
Click to expand...

I don’t believe I ever said anything about speed over accuracy.

That's why I asked.

But without a flat trajectory, why bother?

This statement demonstrates you probably don't really understand external ballistics and how it really matters or makes a meaningful difference within the scope of the conversation. A couple hundred FPS effects accuracy of a particular rifle way more than it will effect the flight profiles of the actual projectiles fired when they are within a couple hundred FPS of each other. In other words, velocity will effect rifle accuracy performance more... the flight profiles are going to be so similar, when within a couple hundred FPS of each other, that it won't matter for your intended shooting purposes.

I’m also trying to to get less wind drift to make hits more likely.

Again, external ballistic factors at play here... run some wind drift profiles, same bullet but within a couple hundred FPS apart, and you will see the difference is a moot issue. The difference at say 300 or 400 yards might be as much as 3/4" to 1" respectively (some more, some less)... if you're not ranging and using pure ballistic data from the start (I’m not going to range, or dial coyotes, coming to the call.) then I will assert an inch or so is again a moot point in the context of the type of shooting you are doing.

I may very well have misread your intention in the original question, my apologies if my post came across as offensive. Bottom line for me... speed is secondary, find the best shooting combo and develop your distance and drift data from there.
 
There's shades of gray all along the line.

For myself, for a calling rifle specifically, if I have a load averaging five shot groups in the high .3's and a load averaging in the low 4's but 200 fps faster, I'm going with the faster one. Anything under .5 MOA as an average for five, five shot groups shot consecutively, is acceptable to me for a calling rifle.

For a colony varmint rifle, I'm more picky about accuracy. I want to see low .3's but will accept anything in the .3's. Running in the .4's is okay after it has some miles on it. But new, I want to see better than that. If the rifle really wants to run noticeably slower to shoot good, I'm going to change something. I don't build hot rods to not run fast.

That's me. My rifles. Somebody else, their rifles, whatever makes them happy is fine by me. Alf said it well in another thread recently. "I know what works best for me, and that's all that matters".

- DAA
 
DAA said:
There's shades of gray all along the line.

For myself, for a calling rifle specifically, if I have a load averaging five shot groups in the high .3's and a load averaging in the low 4's but 200 fps faster, I'm going with the faster one. Anything under .5 MOA as an average for five, five shot groups shot consecutively, is acceptable to me for a calling rifle.

For a colony varmint rifle, I'm more picky about accuracy. I want to see low .3's but will accept anything in the .3's. Running in the .4's is okay after it has some miles on it. But new, I want to see better than that. If the rifle really wants to run noticeably slower to shoot good, I'm going to change something. I don't build hot rods to not run fast.

That's me. My rifles. Somebody else, their rifles, whatever makes them happy is fine by me. Alf said it well in another thread recently. "I know what works best for me, and that's all that matters".

- DAA
Click to expand...

You have illustrated my point... anything shooting within a couple hundred FPS that's performing in the sub 1/2 MOA category isn't going to matter. In that case, I agree, I'd go as fast as what ever your "acceptable performance" allows.

Not directed at the OP, but too many people unintentionally sacrifice some accuracy left on the table for a couple hundred FPS that really makes no meaningful difference in the field on live targets. In that regards, neither does a small improvement in accuracy so it's a wash IMO to go too deep down the rabbit hole.

Not doubting YOUR numbers, but I know a heck of a lot of people make tall claims on CONSISTENT sub MOA accuracy... I ran a training company for fifteen years and did precision rifle classes as well as some reloading instruction. I can't tell you how many guys showed up with "sub 1/2 MOA" rifles that on show day were MOA at best. Just seen it too many times.

My needs are much less than yours... for me as a utility shooter, anything under MOA suits my needs out to 500 yards. I stopped chasing 1/4 MOA improvements when reloading supplies got over priced. I can hit anything with a 3/4 MOA rifle that I can with a sun 1/2 MOA rifle and I'm sure a lot of folks here can too.

My posts are just for conversation and are not meant to offend anyone or cause issues.
 
No issues, no worries.

Like I said, I see it as a balance, being intentional about where to end up on the scale and wherever we're happy on the scale, it's all good.

I hear you on the internet claims. I don't like to make them and kind of wish I hadn't. But everything I'm shooting is full on Greg Tannel full works custom built bolt action goodness. All custom barrels with custom spec'd chambers/reamers, dies and well tuned loads. Nesika actions and Greg T. works job Remington actions. Jewell triggers, McM stocks, blah, blah, blah. They are all wildcat hotrods custom purpose built and spec'd down to the nth detail. I do still shoot a couple oldies that Mike Bryant did back in the day too. He built a lot of world record breaking rifles back then.

- DAA
 
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