Kill zone????

B

buckshooter2

New member
Hello, I have a 12 gauge stoeger shotgun and plan to take it coyote hunting. I have been researching good varmint loads and many different loads seem to work. I have a modified, improved, full and extra full turkey chokes that I could use but not sure which is best. I have seen some people use dead coyote choke tube but don't know much about them.

I have read good things about

1. Varmint X by Winchester (BB)
2. Hornady heavy magnum coyote (BB or 00 buckshot)

First, which is a good load to use?Second, which will do the best out to 50 yards and beyond if need?
Also, which choke should I use or should I consider buying a different one?


I live in south eastern Michigan and plan to hunt with friends who have rifles so my goal is to have an effective kill zone of roughly 60 to 75 yards if possible with this gun.

Thanks
 
I would say for coyotes at those distances your going to have to do some testing and patterning to find a load that has enough pattern to knock down a coyote. Hevi shot dead coyote would be a good place to start for 70 yard coyotes.
 
My Beretta extreme 2 did not like the Hornady BB’s at all. The Winchester BB were great at 40, thinned out at 50 but acceptable after that thinned out fast
 
Okay. So is buckshot a better option for shooting a coyote versus these BB loads? Obviously every gun is different but maybe some 00 buckshot would be better then varmint x BB
 
Thanks GC, very helpful. Looks like I need to go pattern my gun and see what my gun can do. I am leaning more toward buckshot but I am interested in trying the varmint x BB by winchester.
 
Lead BB doesn't have the penetration to reliably anchor coyote at the ranges you seek. Especially at going away angles. 00 Buck has too few pellets for full patterns. At the 60 - 70 yards you are looking for TSS is the deal.
 
If you are going to use buckshot on coyotes use number 4 buckshot. Number 4 buckshot loads will have over twice as many pellets over 00 Buck loads.

Lead BB shot does not weigh enough to get the penetration needed to reliably kill or break down coyotes past around 45 yards away.

For shooting coyotes less than 45 yards away I would rather use the Winchester BB load because they would have over 30 pellets more than the number 4 buckshot loads.

If you reload shotgun shells you can reload shells that are much better than the Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T shot loads for about half as much money. For about the same price as Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T shot loads you could reload TSS loads that would be much better coyote loads.
 
Nickel or copper plated shot will penetrate a bit batter than the uncoated lead pellets if you are considering #2 or BBs. I would still recommend #4 buckshot.

Your shotgun choke will make the decision for you when you pattern it. You do not have to get super precise to get at or near the best load. Just go get a big cardboard box, a roll of butcher/freezer paper, staplegun and a sharpie marker to mark an aiming point. Take a notebook along so you can record the results like POI vs POA. You may find your choke(s) toss the pellets off center. Get back about 20 yards and blast at the X or dot, lable the targets and go home and count the # of pellets inside a 12" circle (or size of your choice). You will quickly see which loads scatter the shot, shoot donut patterns, or are either even or center dense.
 
Originally Posted By: HellgateNickel or copper plated shot will penetrate a bit batter than the uncoated lead pellets if you are considering #2 or BBs. I would still recommend #4 buckshot.

Your shotgun choke will make the decision for you when you pattern it. You do not have to get super precise to get at or near the best load. Just go get a big cardboard box, a roll of butcher/freezer paper, staplegun and a sharpie marker to mark an aiming point. Take a notebook along so you can record the results like POI vs POA. You may find your choke(s) toss the pellets off center. Get back about 20 yards and blast at the X or dot, lable the targets and go home and count the # of pellets inside a 12" circle (or size of your choice). You will quickly see which loads scatter the shot, shoot donut patterns, or are either even or center dense.

20 yards? That's too close to get much information about the pattern. Especially if the shooter is looking for an effective long distance choke and load combination. Forever 40 yards has been the standard distance to pattern a shotgun. It serves as a good yardstick to compare your patterns with other shooters. Also, it's amazing what ten yards does to a pattern. A solid 40 yard pattern can easily be a bad 50 yard combination. Only shooting can tell the tale. Which brings up other points, such as using only one shot pattern to determine effectiveness. I've seen some striking differences between individual shots. I would use three patterns as a minimum, five shots would be better. Also note that there will be changes as the barrel and choke become dirty. Cold weather usually results in looser patterns. Shotguns can be finicky as he l l.
 
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A very dense (or lousy) pattern at 20 yds will still be a dense (or lousy) pattern at 50 yards. The close shooting is to get him in the ballpark and he can verify at greater distances after he has ruled out the crappy loads. It saves a lot of walking back and forth.
 
To each his own. I'll agree that a lousy pattern at 20 yards will be a lousy pattern at 50 yards. I don't see a need to shoot twice to figure that out. As hard to get and expensive as ammo is I would try to eliminate the close shooting to save shells and focus on further out where patterns really matter. No matter, different strokes and all that.
 
Apex tss, by far the best, but very expensive. Tungsten at extreme ranges out of an extra full or turkey choke has patterned well. Hornady coyote bb's work well at 50 or so, for me. Tss apex by the way, in 2s and 4s are about 10 bucks apiece. Heavy shot strut 5 and 6s work well at 45 in.
 
Originally Posted By: Bm0455 Heavy shot strut 5 and 6s work well at 45 in.

do tell. and just how many coyotes have you killed at an honest 40-45 yards with this #5 and #6 magical strut shot?
 
I think 4 buckshot is probably what I will try along with some buckshot and possibly BB. So for shooting buckshot is it better to use a super tight choke like an extra full Turkey choke? Or should I try to get a dead coyote choke tube? I also have a improved, modified and full choke for the gun that I can use.

My stoeger is the M2000 model that is semi auto. Any good recommendations for buckshot chokes if I should get one?
 
Some tight chokes actually will scatter large shot like buckshot. Start out with what you have. You may find that a less than full or extra full will give a tighter pattern.
 
Originally Posted By: buckshooter2Okay, time to do some shooting and see what happens

Conclusions...

At this point I think the very best of the best would be the Remington HD-BB load and a choke of .670" constriction. My testing would seem to indicate that this combination will give the max number of appropriately sized pellets (BB), harder and heavier than plated lead, fast at 1,300 fps, with considerably better penetration, this load has patterned very consistently throughout my shooting from two shotguns and two differing choke diameters. A new shooter, or, an older one that wants to try something new would do well to begin with the HD-BB/.670" combination. This compares to the newest cutting edge magnum type rifle cartridge/bullet combo in the hunting world. The downside? They are expensive...

For an inexpensive alternative, I have to look back at my old standard, No. Four Buck with a .660" choke. Much less expensive than the new fangled hi-tech loads and effective enough for most shotgunning of called predators. IMHO, the No. 4BK/.660" combo is sorta like the .30-06 of the hunting world, a proven standard by which all others will be judged by.

An observation, with all the testing I have done here and in the past, and all the results I have seen posted by reliable and honest shotgunners, not one of us has yet to discover the mythical "70+ yard shotgun, choke, or load." Maybe there is one floating around out there, but please excuse me if I seem skeptical when some of those wonderous claims of longrange shotgunning of 70 - 100 yard kills surface in a post or an advertisement from a company.

Another thing, this testing also drives home the point that patterning is so very important BEFORE you go hunting. One thing is for sure when talking shotguns, chokes, and loads... they are as finicky as any rifle can be. Change any one variable and the test shooting must begin again. I think I'm ready to go hunting...
 
Unless the coyotes at 30 yards to 40 yards are shot in the face with lead #2 shot and Hevi-Shot #5 & #6 shot the coyotes will run off.Great patterns don't work if the shot is not big enough or dense enough to get deep penetration.

I agree with GC on how good the Remington HD BB Waterfowl loads worked on coyotes. The very hard and denser HD BB pellets out performed lead BB shot by a long ways and they had 28 more pellets than a 3" 12 ga number 4 buckshot load.

For the guys that reload the HW13 BB Lead Free shot that Bucks Run Sports Supply sells is very close to being the same as the Rem HD BB shot. BPI reloading sells lead BBB and lead T shot that penetrates much deeper than lead BB shot and they have way more pellets per shell than lead number 4 buckshot loads.

I like having at least 70 pellets per shell for coyotes. My FHW 15g/cc #2 shot loads have 90 pellets per shell and my TSS #3 shot loads have right at 100 pellets per shell and these two shot types and sizes penetrate deep and break coyote bones easily.

Look below at the information from KPY Shotshell Ballistics. In my opinion you need at least 3.70" of 20% gel penetration to reliably kill and breakdown 30 to 35 pound coyotes. All of the loads below are at 1300 fps and all of the loads are 1-1/2 oz of shot except for the lead number 4 Buckshot load that is 1-7/8 oz of shot.

1300 fps #6 Hevi-Shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 4.2 yards with 309 pellets per shell.
1300 fps #5 Hevi-Shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 8.9 yards with 238 pellets per shell.
1300 fps #2 lead shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 19.6 yards with 133 pellets per shell.
1300 fps BB lead shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 46.1 yards with 77 pellets per shell.
1300 fps BBB lead shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 55.8 yards with 65 pellets per shell.
1300 fps T lead shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 66 yards with 56 pellets per shell.
1300 fps BB Rem HD shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards with 70 pellets per shell.
1300 fps #4 buck lead shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 109 yards with 41 pellets per shell.
1300 fps #2 15g/cc FHW shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 70.5 yards with 97 pellets per shell.
1300 fps #3 18g/cc TSS shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 96.8 yards with 100 pellets per shell.

Look at the huge difference in yardage between the lead #2 shot and the lead BB shot. Lead #4 Buckshot gets plenty of penetration but the pattern falls apart because it has so few pellets per shell.

The first 3 loads listed will kill coyotes if you can shoot them in the face at close range but they are not good loads for dropping coyotes when the shots are not perfect.

The Rem HD 70 pellet BB load, FHW #2 15g/cc 97 pellet load and the TSS #3 shot 100 pellet load are my favorite coyote loads. I have to shoot lead free shot at coyotes.

If I could use lead shot on coyotes I would have been loading lead BBB or lead T shot for coyotes. Look at how much more distance the lead BBB and lead T shot get over lead BB shot!

If you are hunting coyotes that are bigger than 35 pounds the lead number 4 buckshot would be hard to beat as far as cost and performance goes, if you can use lead shot.
 


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