East? - West?

P

Prime Time

New member
Ok I've been chasing coyotes for a few years, but I'm new to this forum. Can someone discuss with me the actual difference between coyotes in the East and Coyotes in the west... And were is this "line." I live in Minnesota just west of the Mississippi River and I guess someone told me the coyotes in my area would be considered Eastern Coyotes. "OK" So what's the difference and how do you call differently for eastern to western? I was told that Eastern Coyotes don't respond to howling (but after reading I don't find that to be true) and western coyotes do and are more vocal.
 
Prime Time,
I have always considered the mississippi river to be the line between the east and the mid-west. There are many opinions as to whether the so called "eastern" coyotes are really any different than those in the mid-west or west. Coyotes in the east seem to be a bit larger, but they still look like coyotes to me. Coyotes become more spooky in area's where people population is high, and this makes them harder to call. I guess if I was getting shot at all of the time, I would become spooky also. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Rich,
I'd have to agree with you. With more major roads littering the landscape a coyote has got to be on his toes at all times and keep himself hidden or very close to cover otherwise he won't make it long with all the road hunters. Thus they use the cover that is available to them to there advantage! So would you say that is the only difference. Coyotes in the east learn to use the cover were coyotes in the say Dakota's don't since they really don't have any? I guess the main reason I'm asking is because I watch videos and hunts from places out west and I was wondering if the same tactics would work were I live.
 
In my opinion and it really don't count. I don't believe there is any difference between the eastern coyote and the western coyote. When you think about it, how did the eastern coyote get there? From the west thats how lol, it's the same coyote guys. Maybe a little bigger like Rich said, but those may have wolf in them. Until someone can prove otherwise, a coyote is a coyote. The west probably has a 100 times more coyotes then the east making them alot easier to hunt. Coyotes live around people everywhere in the country, they can live in your back yard without you even knowing, but that don't make them harder to hunt, they have the same needs FOOD.........Good Hunting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Prime Time,
The same basic calling methods will work wherever the coyote lives. The west is blessed with a lot more coyotes and a lot less people. Those of us in Iowa and points east can't expect to take the large numbers of coyotes that westerner's do, but we can still have fun. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Well thanks for the information! So what I've concluded is a coyotes a coyote no matter were you are. Just like a whitetail deer is a whitetail deer.

So is it true that coyotes "out" west are more vocal than coyotes "out" east? I hear coyotes a lot at night, but I've 'heard' they are not as vocal. Is this most likely do to the whole population thing agian?

I think I'm going to go howl and see what happens! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Prime Time,

I live and hunt in East Texas. I also hunt quite a bit out West. Danny and Rich are both on the money. Coyotes are coyotes wherever you hunt them. Coyotes in the the more heavily populated rural areas of the East are without a dought a tough nut to crack though. Typically in the East we have deer seasons that lasts a couple of months or more and lots of hunters in the woods. Coyote learn real fast how to survive under these conditions, and it makes them harder call. The tactics are the same, you just have pay more attention to details.

Good Hunting

Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Differences among the same speicies is usually more noticable North to South than East to West at least physically.

There are two rules that address these differcences.

(a) Bergman's rule - the body size of varieties increases with decreasing mean temperature of the habitat. Example: the ideal shape to be in the Arctic is a sphere.

(b) Allen's rule - the relative size of exposed portions of the body decreases with decreasing temperature, i.e. nose, ears, toes, extremities will be proportionately smaller.

Bergman's Rule is easily noted when comparing animals of species such as White-tail deer, Black Bear, certain species of birds.

I think this could/would extend to coyotes as well.

Behaviorial differences between coyote populations should not be closely associated with East/West geography. As mentioned thought, behavior could greatly be altered due to increased human populations, increased coyote populations etc.

I doubt that coyote behavior could be proven to be statically different if looking at an urban coyote population around say Los Angeles or Las Vegas, as opposed to an urban population around Washington D.C. or Atlanta.

While there may well be differeces in behavior between coyote populations, factors other than Longitude will be responsible.
 
I'm not a scientist but I have have some observations that lead me to what I believe. Like I said in my earlier post I hunt in both East and West Texas, and I have noticed some very recognizable differences. I'm not sure if it due to them being of two different subspecies, or due to being in different habitat. East Texas coyotes are on average a little heavier, and darker in color. I have seen several that were completely black with no hint of being crossbred with dogs. I have killed several hundred coyotes and never seen on that I suspected was a coydog. I have never seen a black coyote in West Texas. I'm not saying they don't exist, just never seen one.
Rural coyotes of the East or completely different than the urban coyotes. Rural coyotes are shot at and harrased more often than urban coyotes. Urban coyotes are still coyotes but don't exibit the same fear of man as rural coyotes. In the East where a large place would be considered 100 acres there may be two or three people deer hunting on it. That effects there behavior. Also the rural roads of the East run all over the place, and rarely will you go a few hundred yards between houses. People are out moving around all day and the coyotes have learned to be quit and be still during these times so that also effect there behavior. This close proximity to danger coupled with the abundance of food coupled with the fact that the thicker vegetation, and lower numbers makes hunting the Eastern coyote quite a challenge. I've often said hunting coyotes in the East is like hunting coyotes out West, except with blinders on.
Coyotes out in West Texas are still high strung but not nearly much as the ones in East Texas or other parts of the East. They have a lot more country to themselves and don't have to dodge near as many dangers.

Its no secret that coyotes are very adaptable where ever they live. Like rich said, keep it fun and have a good time.

Good Hunting

Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Yellowhammer,

I get all tingly when you start talking scientifically. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I don't care what anyone says, there is a difference in coyote behavior between the ones I hunt in Minnesota and the ones I hunt in North Dakota 200 miles away.

Randy
 
Like everyone above me I think the terrain ,cover, and human population have more to do with coyote behavior in the east than anything else. I just got through watching " Eye's Front" by Mossy Oak productions.It's all done in Texas, mostly west texas. I didn't see a behavior I haven't seen before.The only diferences I saw were in the cover and terrain. I wouldn't mind if my area was as close to flat as some I saw on that film. Jimmie
 
Randy,
You told me that Coyotes in Minnesota are not as vocal as coyotes you hunt farther west, but does that mean they will not come in to coyote sounds? A lot of things I've been reading say that coyotes will come, but they won't answer back.

But so far you are the only Minnesota boy to post up on this topic. Maybe we just have some of the hardest coyotes in the US to hunt! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

It is funny though that you alway's see these coyote hunting video's and they are alway's hunting out west! South Dakota, North Dakota, Wyoming, Texas! Maybe they should try it up this way and see how much footage they can get...

The challenge is on! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Byron- I think you are right, and don't think my earlier post contradicts what you are saying. I have compared West Texas/East Texas coyote and bobcat pelts at the fur house and there is a definate difference, with the west being much thicker coats primarily the undercoat. This is a result of climate.

Extreme west Texas or other arid land coyotes will have smaller body weights. This is related to Berman's rule, since smaller bodies will cool off faster and require less water.

Hope nobody got too tingly. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I still think habitat, human disturbance, and competition from other coyotes has more to do with behavior than East/West location.

Would an East Texas pineywoods coyote behave differently than an Alabama pineywoods coyote? I don't know? If population dynamics and environmental conditions were similar, I don't see why they would. This would be my unscientific assumptions. But you know what happens when you assume something.
 
Well when I think of yotes I think of five "kinds" not just two". I think of the typical Western Yotes, which is where all yotes originated from.

I think of Eastern Yotes, basically same as western yotes only they live in different cover and habitat so therefore the may act slitly different.

I think of the the BC valley yotes, which have recently arrived since the wolfs have been "bought" and relocated to the lower 48 states. These coyotes live mainly in the Okwanagon valley around the Kelowna area. They show hardly any fear of many and live in city parks, back yards, and survive off pets.

I think of Northern yotes, basically from Alberta North West up to the most northern parts of BC and up in Alaska. These yotes usaully have thicker fur and are lighter in colour than most others.

And finally the most noticible type the hybred yote. This type of yote is more commonly and appropriatly called the "The Eastern Brush Wolf". These yotes generally live northeast of the imaginary line dividing PA in half. These yotes where orginally like the eastern yotes only they bred with the Algonkwin sunspecies of grey wolf here in Ontario. The result is an animal that is usually between 40-50lbs and inhabits forests. They act very different than there distantly related western cousins, and their pelts is very unique. There pelts are usaully darker than "normal" yotes and commonly come in black and sometimes red or blond. This is the only type of yote that will come in black. In some parts of PA black yotes make up 1/5th the population. The brush wolf is the only type of yote we have up here in Ontaio.

I don't really consider this a type of yote but Coydogs (the result of coyote dog cross-breeding) occur through out the US and Canada. They will often look like a scruffy coyotes. They come in all sorts of colours (including black). These creatures are most likely infertile and will not reproduce.

I have collected this information from:

-My Local Conservation Officer Brian Steel
-Outdoor Canada
-Our own PM forums
-Hunt Ontario Forums
-Ontario Out of Doors
-National Audubon Society Field Guide to mammals
-Canadian Geographic
-My own Findings
and-MY cottage neighbours and local farmers
 
I've got video of one I shot two or three years ago. It's shot with an old high 8 camera and the quality is poor, but I think I'll put it on my next video. I've also seen several others, and called some in that others have shot. All in East Texas. They in all respects apeared to be full blood coyote.

Good Hunting

Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Are you two sure that these yotes didn't have any domestic dog in them, even if it is a few generations ago and they don't show it that could explain? Although I'm not gonna argue with a Wildlife Biologist and a professional coyote caller. If you guys say so you're probably right. I just tried to collect a bunch of info from various sources and compile it, somewhere along the line I must of picked up some rotten info, oh well.
 
No offence taken HunterTay. If if looks like a coyote, smells like a coyote, responds to a call like a coyote, it's probably a coyote. I've killed hundreds of coyotes and have never killed one I even remotely thought was a coydog. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I can't say that I ever saw or shot one.

Good Hunting

Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I would like to say that here in NY State, the coyotes are pretty vocal, you can hear them a few nights a week howlin and yippin, pretty close to urban area's, I believe they do adapt to their habitat pretty well, or they wouldn't be here.

Scott12
 


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