17/223 shoulder angle? Can I use 17 Rem dies backed out?

204 AR

204 AR

Well-known member
Being the thinker (lol) and the cheapskate (more like it) that I am, I've been studying case dimensions to figure out the best way to form and reload 17/223.

What I'm seeing is that 223 has a shoulder angle of 23*, and so I'm assuming 17/223 does also. I also found that the 17 Rem is a 23* shoulder angle. It appears that the 223 case body is longer than 17 Rem, although case length of the 17 is longer.

It looks like to me that a 17 Rem die, backed out the correct distance to not shove the 223 shoulder back, should work fine? Can someone tell me if it does or doesn't and why?

If it is backed out too far and I need to size the whole body I can always run it thru a 223 die body first.
 
the necks are thicker on the 17-223 brass compared to the 17 rem. I have the 17 rem dies but I have not tried using them as you are asking but I would bet that you would end up with too much neck tension on the 17-223 brass due to the thicker neck.
 
Originally Posted By: midwestpredatorthe necks are thicker on the 17-223 brass compared to the 17 rem. I have the 17 rem dies but I have not tried using them as you are asking but I would bet that you would end up with too much neck tension on the 17-223 brass due to the thicker neck.

I believe the expander ball will handle that issue

Greg
 
So it would be overworking the brass some it sounds like. Do you see any dimensional reasons it won't work? I'd think someone would be doing it if it worked well? Or did no one think of it?
 
I tried exactly what you are asking. You will need to size the body with the .223 die. Then use the 17 Remington die to size the neck. The 17 die alone won't size the case down far enough at the shoulder, case wall junction. At this point of the case the 17 Rem. measures .356 The 223 case measured at the same point measures .354

I finally gave in and bought a 17-223 full length size die and use my 17 Rem seating die. I found my size die at Midway USA on a close out sale for $49.95. I haven't looked to see what they are going for now.
 
Thank you guys that is exactly the info I'm looking for. It's possible but a PITA. I think I'll go with the correct dies when they come in. I did order a set of 17 Rem dies anyway as I will need those someday I'm sure.

Ritch I did see that one difference in the case dimension drawings but thought maybe it wasn't enough to matter. Thanks for clearing it up.
 
Well I got the barrel, upper, etc in the mail this week and got it all put together last night and tried it out today. Here is how I formed brass, I set up my press with lube die in station 1, gutted 223 die in 2, 223 bushing die with a .225 bushing in 3, and 17 Rem die (backed out the appropriate amount) in 4. I got a little lube on my fingers and wiped the neck of each case when I started it then marched them around, it worked very well. I formed 100 cases pretty quick once I got all the dies set so that cases just chambered and extracted easily without sticking. Runout is not very good on them however, so I'm hoping that improves on subsequent sizings.

My first efforts produced easily sub-moa groups (after the wind died) and no malfunctions. I used middle of the road 17 Rem data with 20 gr zmax but had to back down as that seemed a little warm. I did have unusual results with wc846 powder in that it had wild velocity swings, 1/2 would group well and show about 4050 fps, but the rest would be roughly 300 fps slower and all over. It could be the non-magnum primers I was using but I'm not sure. IMR 8208 did not do this at all and speeds were very consistent. 22.5 gr gets me just over 4000 fps with no pressure signs. Groups hover between 3/4" and 1" so far. I will try tuning that more as well as trying other powders.
 
Just to update this for anyone that might want to try using their 17 Rem dies, it's not worth it. I bought the Hornady 17/223 die set off of Amazon finally and it works much much better than bothering with a bunch of the wrong dies, just like the guys advised. They produce much better ammo also.
 
Originally Posted By: 204 ARJust to update this for anyone that might want to try using their 17 Rem dies, it's not worth it. I bought the Hornady 17/223 die set off of Amazon finally and it works much much better than bothering with a bunch of the wrong dies, just like the guys advised. They produce much better ammo also.

Amen.

Greg
 
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