.17 fireball / 17 rem ballistic question

BHLBAMA

BHLBAMA

New member
I have purchased one of each in the last month and they both shoot very nice. For some reason I thought that my 17 fireball (model 7) had better ballistics than the 17 rem (700 BDL)??? Everything I can find shows the 17 rem to be 200-250 fps faster and have 100-150 lbs more of energy than the fireball. What is the big hype about the fireball and what....... if any are in advantages Fireballs owners??? Also what kinda of bullets, primers, and powder is everyone having the best luck with???? I thought about buying some H335, W760, or IMR3031, or Benchmark. ANyone tried the 15 gr Bergers??? 20 gr V-maxs??? thanks for any help
 
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The big hype is that the 17 FireBall is the commercial version of the MK4 wildcat, and that is a VERY popular round.

The full sized 17 Rem has all but disappeared from the market - I don't think any company is making rifles for it, except some custom makers.

The 17 Rem had some problems that have followed it for nearly 30 years. It is fussy to load, and factory barrels left a lot to be desired.

On the other hand, the 17 FireBall is a joy to shoot, and does not foul barrels very much.

Now, expect a few lovers of the 17 Rem to jump in and defend it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif It is a good cartridge, it just never had good barrels from the factory, and early ammo was not the best either.

.
 
It{17 Fireball} uses about half the powder and is a more efficient round. Less powder equals less barrel heat equals less throat erosion. The Fireball erodes about like a 223 but the 17 Remington is closer or worse than a 22-250. The big hype is that its something new to many shooters. The manufacturers have to come up with something different as often as possible or they wont sell as many or enough guns. In this case its all in the name because the 17 Mach IV has been around since the early 60's.
 
From what I've read, the 17 Remington burn barrels real bad. Barrell life should be better with the fireball. One of my buddies has a 17 Remington that shoots great and is a blast to play with.
 
Thanks fellows........this 17 cal is all new to me..... any info about what kinda of bullets and/or powder either like the best???
 
H-4198 is a very good powder for the .17FB and I have had the best accuracy with the 22gr Berger(not sure if they are still available) and the 25gr Berger.
 
In factory configuration, you might find a 17 Rem or a 17 Rem FB with a poor factory or a good factory barrel. It's just the toss of the dice with factory 17 caliber barrels.

With good barrels, the old 17 Rem will give better velocity, is more adapted to heavier 17 caliber bullets, etc., and the 17 Rem FB will shoot the same number of rounds with less barrel heat and works best with lighter 17 caliber bullets. So what you gain with one you give up with the other.

I've shot 17 Rem and 17 Mach IV rifles for years and like both for different reasons. I bought a 17 Rem FB recently just to thank Remington for legitimizing the Mach IV case and it shoots very well and the barrel cleans up very quickly. Others who have bought the new 17 Rem FB rifles recently have experienced mixed luck....some got good barrels and some didn't.

I currently own two factory 17 Rem rifles and one custom 17 Rem rifle and all three shoot very well. Again, its the toss of the dice and not the cartridges themselves that makes one good and one bad. For me, they are different enough for me to warrant owning both and liking both for different reasons.

JMO - BCB
 
I bought a Remington 700 CDL in 17 Remington Fireball and I'm not having much luck making it shoot the way I want it to. The factory loads shoot terrible but in this case I think it's the gun. The barrel cleans up good and doesn't show any signs of fouling so I suspect it's the bedding or the barrel. Thanks to some advice from Catshooter the gun is shooting a little better but has a long way to go. I am working up loads for it now and have used some of the following MK4 information I download from the net and you might also find it useful.

Please treat this information with caution

Cooper M21 - s/n MTV433 Neck Diameter: 0.199" 25 gr. Berger square lande mark = 2.606 Comp OAL
Trim Length: 1.430" Neck Wall thickness: 0.0135" 25 gr. Berger MEF square lande mark = 2.597 Comp OAL
FL Size Headspace: 1.089" 22 gr. Berger MEF square lande mark = 2.601 Comp OAL
20 gr. Berger MEF square lande mark = 2.610 Comp OAL
20 gr. Hornady V-max square lande mark = x.xxx Comp OAL
H4227 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
REM 14.9 20 V-max BR4 .221 4,000
Stevespages.com 12.4 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 13.4 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Stevespages.com 11.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 14.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Benchrest.com/sst/mach 15.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,700


H4198 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Stevespages.com 14.3 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
REM 16.0 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Reloadersnest.com - T. Steger 16.0 20 V-max BR4 .221 Load ID 8851
Stevespages.com 16.7 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Todd Kindler 15.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,633
Todd Kindler 16.1 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,735 Accurate
Stevespages.com 13.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Todd Kindler 16.4 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,819 Very accurate - approach carefully
Todd Kindler 16.7 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,855 Very accurate - approach carefully
Todd Kindler 17.0 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,923 Very Accurate - MAXIMUM

Accuratereloading.com 13.0 30 Berger WSR .221 2,894 Fire Forming Load
Accuratereloading.com 13.5 30 Berger WSR .221 2,968
Accuratereloading.com 13.8 30 Berger WSR .221 3,001
Accuratereloading.com 14.1 30 Berger WSR .221 3,053
Accuratereloading.com 14.4 30 Berger WSR .221 3,178
Accuratereloading.com 14.7 30 Berger WSR .221 3,227
Accuratereloading.com 15.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,293
Accuratereloading.com 15.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,322
Accuratereloading.com 3.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,387
Accuratereloading.com 15.6 30 Berger WSR .221 3,453 Accurate
Accuratereloading.com 15.9 30 Berger WSR .221 3,546


Reloader 7 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Stevespages.com 14.2 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.3 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Stevespages.com 12.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 15.7 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221


Reloader 10X POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Dan C 17.4 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 3,945
Dan C 18.3 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,140





Ramshot X-Term POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Dan C 19.6 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,080
Dan C 19.8 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,110





H322 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
??? 17.5 20 V-max Fed 205M .221
Chucker 19.5 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221 4,350 MAX LOAD

Todd Kindler 17.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,667
Todd Kindler 17.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,726
Todd Kindler 18.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,776
Todd Kindler 18.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,825 Very accurate
Todd Kindler 18.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,870 Very accurate


N130 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Stevespages.com 14.8 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.9 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Stevespages.com 13.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.4 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221

Accuratereloading.com 14.0 30 Berger WSR .221 2,953
Accuratereloading.com 14.3 30 Berger WSR .221 3,008
Accuratereloading.com 14.6 30 Berger WSR .221 3,083
Accuratereloading.com 14.9 30 Berger WSR .221 3,179
Accuratereloading.com 15.2 30 Berger WSR .221 3,225
Accuratereloading.com 15.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,266
Accuratereloading.com 15.8 30 Berger WSR .221 3,295
Accuratereloading.com 16.1 30 Berger WSR .221 3,388
Accuratereloading.com 16.4 30 Berger WSR .221 3,468
Accuratereloading.com 16.7 30 Berger WSR .221 3,529
Accuratereloading.com 17.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,592
Accuratereloading.com 17.3 30 Berger WSR .221 3,655 Accurate
Accuratereloading.com 17.6 30 Berger WSR .221 3,710
Accuratereloading.com 17.9 30 Berger WSR .221 3,778


N133 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Montdoug 18.2 20 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 4,080
Phil Maxwell 18.2 20 V-max Fed 205M .223 Warm
Dan C 18.5 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,040
Dan C 19.0 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,200

Todd Kindler 15.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,251
Todd Kindler 16.0 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,399
Todd Kindler 16.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,501
Todd Kindler 17.3 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,567
Alex 17.5 25 Berger Fed 205M .221 Fireforming load
Alex 17.7 25 Berger Fed 205M .221
Todd Kindler 17.8 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,641 Accurate
Alex 17.9 25 Berger Fed 205M .221
Todd Kindler 18.1 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,753 Approach carefully - accurate
Todd Kindler 18.3 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,842 Approach carefully - accurate
Todd Kindler 18.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,909 Approach carefully - accurate
17VLD 19.0 25 Starke Fed 205M ? Hot

Accuratereloading.com 15.0 30 Berger WSR .221 2,960 Claims 133 is too slow for Mach IV
Accuratereloading.com 15.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,059
Accuratereloading.com 16.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,166
Accuratereloading.com 16.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,304
Accuratereloading.com 17.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,336 Accurate
Accuratereloading.com 17.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,433


BENCHMARK POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Phil Maxwell 19.3 20 V-max Fed 205M .223 Seat .015 into lands - turn necks to .0135
Dan C 19.2 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,030 Seat .015 into lands - turn necks to .0135
Dan C 19.5 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,100 Seat .015 into lands - turn necks to .0135

Lee in OH 16.8 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,352 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 17.1 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,413 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 17.4 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,486 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 17.7 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,564 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 18.0 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,539 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 18.3 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,649 22" TC barrel
Dan C / Tom Moore 18.4 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,760 Turn necks to .0135 - cases hold .3 to .4 less than .221 - seat square into lands
Lee in OH 18.6 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,693 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 18.9 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,776 22" TC barrel
Dan C 19.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,750 Turn necks to .0135 - cases hold .3 to .4 less than .221 - seat square into lands
Lee in OH 19.2 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,786 22" TC barrel
Dan C 19.2 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,800 Turn necks to .0135 - cases hold .3 to .4 less than .221 - seat square into lands
Lee in OH 19.5(c) 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,874 22" TC barrel - compressed load

BJS - Bryce 18.8 25 Berger CCI BR4 0.221 3,850 Mollied bullet. Hot Load. Start at 18.4 & work your way up to 18.8.

H335 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Montdoug 19.7 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221 3,850 26" barrel - temperature sensitive

Todd Kindler 19.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,808
Stevespages.com 19.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Todd Kindler 19.4 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,875 very accurate
Todd Kindler 19.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,909 very accurate - approach carefully
Stevespages.com 20.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221


AA2015 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 16.7 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,388 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,650 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.
Benchrest.com/sst/mach 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,850



AA2230 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 18.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,398 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 20.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,861 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.
Benchrest.com/sst/mach 20.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,850



AA2460 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,417 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 20.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,883 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.




AA2520 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,316 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 20.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,768 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.
 
Thanks man thats a treasure. I have a lready printed a copy to put in my reloading books. Thanks for the good info fellows
 
BHLBAMA Bud I have a 17 rem and a 17 fireball the 17 rem is one of my all time favorite coyote guns but it does eat the barrels.. The fireball on the other hand slaps the coyotes down hard with good shot placement(thats the key) as with any gun.. I shoot H335 with my fireball.. I just took it on a prarie dog shoot and sent 300 rounds down the tube it shot very well took a few out to 450 yards with it.. so far im very impressed with the little fireball... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Kerry
 
Thanks Kerry I thought I remembered you were a big 17 fan. If I have any problems with it I'll be in contact with you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Kerry
Glad to hear the Fireball is working out for you.
If it's not already, it'll likely become your favorite.
Good hunting to you.
450 yds with a 17 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Super /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Later
DF2
 
Quote:
I believe I just saw that CZ just brought out the 527 in 17 Remington? Go figure



CZ discontinued chambering any rifles in .17 Remington not too long ago, but lots of guys, myself included, are hoping they'll surprise us all and chamber the 527 American in the new .17 Fireball.

I picked up a slightly used CZ 527 Varmint in .17 Remington a couple weeks ago, but I'd buy a 527 American .17 Fireball tomorrow if they'd offer one, and the same rifle chambered in .17 Remington would even be that much better! Here's to keeping my fingers crossed!...
 
Freinds, I am new to this site, and what a site it is! A couple comments on the 17 Rem, while I am not a load master but have loaded for over 35 years, nor am I a varmint master but have hunted varmints for 30 years; I have owned a 17 Rem for about 10 years, stock 700 BDL I paid about $475 used for it (10 years ago), old style wood checking (if that helps date it, without me digging it out)- but it shoots under a dime. That is not saying a lot since lots of 17 calliber bullets can print under a dime. But it holds that dime group at just beyond 250 yards. A few years back my boy and I were deer and critter hunting- I was using a 730 Waters TC short gun with my critter gun as always for just that need, and this big hog came out at 200 yards. I planted the 17 rem 25 grain bullet behind his ear and he never moved from that point on, unless you count into the back of the truck. 4K at the tube and plenty down range had great results. Now the kicker is this is old remington steal- skinny barrel, and nothing extreme on the load. But as I have been accused I rarely punch the tube to keep the fouling out, which is a whole nother story. But they say the 17 Rems are sensitive to fouling- I just hadn't found it yet. I also have a 17 TC Conder with a Super 14, also shoots great.

But the fan that I am- I will buy the 17 R FB one day soon. There is something to say about velocity and zero recoil. Last week I opened up a yote called in close at about 45 yards, a 204 at almost tube velocities exploded on impact (another story). Just have to love those high speed varmint rigs. I will add a pictures once I get smarter on this. Thanks for the great intel on the 17s. I think the real reason to own the 17 R FB and multiple others, is because we can, thank a vet like McCain.
 
Quote:
Quote:
I believe I just saw that CZ just brought out the 527 in 17 Remington? Go figure



CZ discontinued chambering any rifles in .17 Remington not too long ago, but lots of guys, myself included, are hoping they'll surprise us all and chamber the 527 American in the new .17 Fireball.

I picked up a slightly used CZ 527 Varmint in .17 Remington a couple weeks ago, but I'd buy a 527 American .17 Fireball tomorrow if they'd offer one, and the same rifle chambered in .17 Remington would even be that much better! Here's to keeping my fingers crossed!...



Actually,,,,,,,,CZ discontinued the 17Rem and then re-released it recently because of requests from alot of people.
CZ seems to listen to the people who buy their products, so there very well may be a 17FB in their future.
I agree with ya about the 527 American. The Varmint's nice, but the american just handles soooo well.
Now that they have addressed the magazine issue (again listening to the buyer) with the MI it's a perfect platform for either or both 17cals.

Being the visionary that I am /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif,,,, I built this one in 17FB about a year and a half ago.
Maybe I can get CZ to use it as a prototype and give me royalties???????? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


LTRonthecheap.jpg


Oh Yea,,,,,,I'm using H4198 behind 20 and 25 grain Nagels, with excelent results.
Hodgens has loads for this powder on their web-site.
 
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RePete,nice lookin dog ya got there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

O'h that CZ'S pretty sharp also /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
Quote:
I think the real reason to own the 17 R FB and multiple others, is because we can, thank a vet like McCain.



+1 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

You're a welcome addition to P.M.
 
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