17 HMR vrs. .22 LR for short range coyotes.

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Speaking of small cartridges and varmint hunting..... I was installing base moulding on a house this afternoon and a HUGE spider crawled out of the wall right next to me. Now don't call me a girl, but I hate spiders. I immediately shot him to the floor with my air compressor powered finish nailer. SPLAT My question is, do you think an 18 gauge nailer would have done the trick as effectively as my 16 gauge gun did? I mean, man, he was dead right there! I just hate to see a spider crawl off and not be recovered, it ain't right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Todd



Personally i wouldn't use anything less than a clipped head 8d framing nail(except maybe a 1 3/8" staple loaded to 115 psi) for anything with more than 6 legs, the best combo I have come up with is 10d framing nails from a bostitch coil nailer(160 rounds per coil) in stainless steel. They have the best overall penetration, ballistic coefficient and trajectory at everything over 6 inches.All bang flops. I am sure some will disagree and recommend stick nailers, but not me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Alright already, I do have one more Big Gun in my arsenal. When faced with really large vermin I sometimes pull out the 20 oz. framing hammer and give em' old Charlene. She's real slow and heavy, kinda like a 45-70, but man can she put the thump to em'. Todd
 
If ya really wanted to be a sport you'd tie a rock to your forhead and headbut them to death. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Of course there are a few that wouldn't need the rock but!!!!!. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif....... James L.

Disclaimer: this is a joke intended for amusement only.. We at this site do not recommend this act /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif...
 
Well..to all, I apologize if I've offended anyone, especially ChileRojo. I didn't intend to come across a "the room tough" and didn't think I was puffing my chest. I was just trying to add some levity to an otherwise redundant thread and judging by some of the responses I believe I did. Didn't mean to rub you the wrong way CR, but in my defense, I said nothing to you personally other than to not take me so seriously. If you just have to have my personal OPINION on which is better..17HMR or 22LR..of course it's the 17. I may have replied to something a little broader than "Which is better, blah, blah, blah.." but I do have an opinion. When I read the original topic starter, I read it to mean which is best, not what is my opinion of which is best. I don't know which one is best. I only know which one is best in my opinion and since he didn't ask for my opinion, I didn't give it.
It's been fun..Arborman out.
 
Sorry guys, but I wouldn't even attempt to kill a coyote with a 22 or 17 HMR. I believe in quick, sure, humane kills. Even with good shot placement, you're more apt to wound than kill.
 
No worry Arbor, not a chance in hell of me taking you to serious, hell, you can't even take a stance on which is better, your to worried about "opinions" and such:)
I was asking about an "informed" opinion, not a swag or idea, or random thought on the subject. I have no trouble at all determining which is "best", and I don't suppose anyone who knows rifles and cartridges should?
If confronted with the option of using a 22LR or a 17HMR for shooting a coyote, the 17HMR is "best" period. Hope that clears things up for you, next time your asked such a question you'll know now:)
 
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OK...you win. It'll be easier that way.
 
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Sorry guys, but I wouldn't even attempt to kill a coyote with a 22 or 17 HMR. I believe in quick, sure, humane kills. Even with good shot placement, you're more apt to wound than kill.



Well lets just say you did 'attempt' to kill a coyote with a rimfire magnum?...and then lets say you did get 'good shot placement'....i have to strongly disagree with this part of your statement, 'you're more apt to wound than kill'.

I guess you'll just have to give it a whirl sometime to know forsure?....like a whole bunch of us have already. No offense, i can understand opinions and even go with them many times, but 'more apt to wound than kill' with 'good shot placement'? No, other way around, more apt to kill than wound...so has been my experience so far.

B

p.s. or was this another attempt to keep the thread going? If so...good job. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
That poor dead horse.

I have been following this thread and biting my tounge for quite some time.

The original question was.

"The state of CT just allowed the 17 HMR for use in state forests. Up to then the most powerful rifle was the .22 LR.

What would kill a coyote better, a 17 HMR or a .22 LR Velocitor? The ranges are usual woods ranges to 100 yds but usually less."

My answer is:

That kinda like asking a guy "when did you quit beating your wife?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif Just not a very good answer to that question. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

As Chile and others have said, The 17 would be the better of the two. If the question would have been which would be best concerning sling shots, and what sized rubber band would be better the obvious answer would be the bigger. Kind of a no brainer.

I have never been to Italy but have no doubt the leaning tower of piza is in fact leaning. I have also never shot a coyote with a 17 HMR and don't need to to know that it is NOT a good choice for coyotes. Some things are just plain as day. If you are limited to using it then that is another story, but you need to realy pick your shots and be willing to put up with turning down shots that a more sutable choice would be capable of. Shotguns are legal in most areas with restrictions and this would be my choice. I know it wasn't listed in the original posters options, but hey, maybe he overlooked this option. The 22 mag is another option that I would choose over the 17 HMR. Yes, I have shot a few with the 22 mag. It is too weak too, but has more momentum/thump and better bullets to get to the goody than the 17. Period. I understand that speed kills but you have to have penatration too. This is my .02 Take it or leave it.

The legendary Quinton Wagoner once killed a moose with a 220 swift. Does this make the swift a moose gun? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I belive that the "dead horse" has been suficiently beat now. I will leave the thread open for the time being as everyone has been cival and seems to be enjoying it. If this thread is getting on you nerves then simply DON'T READ IT".

Byron (use enough gun) South. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

Will fall ever get here? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Fuzzy logic on your part Byron....Im surprised:) Let me suggest, my southern friend, the shear number of well known coyote hunters who would pointedly state the 223 rem is not enough gun for coyotes. I know this would disturb you, becasue you USE a 223 for most of your coyote hunting I would imagine, at least, thats the rifle I see you most holding in your glory shots?
Now I know, and you know, a 223 will most assuredly knock a coyotes nose in the dirt, becasue we have done it many, many times. So when you hear someone state the 223 is not enough gun and causes more runners than floppers, I bet you gnash your teeth?
Again, one final time, I would never suggest the 17HMR is in any way my "go to" rifle/cartridge for coyotes, but Ive shot enough to know, that if hit "right", just like you should with your 223, and at reasonable ranges(0-75 yards), the 17HMR is superior or best, or better than any 22 rimfire.
 
Well shooot, I shot a coyote in the head with my 22wmr a few years back now. So I just have one question, sausage & onions or extra cheese & mushrooms better on pizza?
 
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So I just have one question, sausage & onions or extra cheese & mushrooms better on pizza?



All of the above ifyou dont mind, Thank You. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Lol, as long as their aint no fruit on the pizza...rule #1.

Chile, 0-75 yrds? hummer better than 22 mag? Thats too tough to call imo? 0-150 yrds?...i know which one i would want in my hands then...placement is #1 imo. 0-75 yrds the differences are too small to even make a comparison to which mag is better, they'd both work just as well, we'd really be wasting our time like professionals if we get into that one, lol.

B /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
Chile,

Well now, are we comparing the 223 with the 17 HMR now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I could care less what people shoot but when ask for an opinion I usualy have one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. My logic is not fuzzy at all, but founded in good common since. If that is not enough, here is some stats from CCI website on the 17 HMR and the 22 mag.

Th 20 grn 17 is running 2375 fps at the muzzle vs the 30 grn/22 mag's 2200 fps for a difference of only 175 fps. The 22 mag however is moving a 1/3 more weight downrange towards the target which translates into more energy. At the muzzle the 22 mag has 322 pounds vs the 17's 250 pounds of energy. Not very fuzzy trying to figure out which one would be better on a 20-40 pound animal. Both are severly lacking, but if I had to choose between the two the choice is not fuzzy at all. I also know a little about terminal performance, effectiveness, and limits of the calibers I use on any game. Is a coyote shot in the same way with a 17 HMR any deader than one shot with a 22 mag? No, and neither are the wounded ones shot by people on this board that read this drivle and think that a 17 HMR or a 22 mag is adaquate for the job. Like you said Vic, there are any number of guys that believe the 223 is too punny for coyotes. Funny though how the 223 guys don't knee jerk, and go off when their caliber is questioned /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. It is ammusing to me though how the sub-caliber proponants go into deffence mode and make excuses like "well you have to pick your shots, avoid bone, know your limits, and a host of other remidies to defend their anemic caliber of choice. I have seen the light 22 hot rocket prarie dog bullets fail enough to know they aight for me either. Speed is a factor in bullet effectiveness but so is weight. The old assumption that if a bullet dumps all it's energy inside the animal it's better is pure hogwash. Weight somehow figures in too how it performs on game as well. Longer heavier bullets leak the coveted velocity less and also out penatrate. How effective is a super fast bullet that can't even penatrate the small shoulder bone on an aproaching coyote? I have crystal clear, un-fuzzy, opinions based on experience that helped me come to my conclusions. I'm sure your just trying to push my buttons because I know you a pretty sharp guy and all /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif. I also know you fond of them sub/caliber pea shooters /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif. For those of you that have confidence in them by all means use them to your hearts content. For me, I'll stick with the heavier more dependable 22 centerfires and shotguns.

Lance, and Danurve,

Your just clouding the issue /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif. Can't you see I'm trying to set these sinners straight? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

I told myself I wouldn't get involved on this meaningless agument over pellet guns and coyotes so this will be my last post on the subject unless things get ugly. Then I'll have to go get MR. FROG, and things could get uglier. No offence Mr. Frog.

Dang, how long till the fur is good?

Byron (Please, use enough gun) South /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I am not sure that I agree with the line of thought that if somebody has not hunted with the .17 HMR they have no valid opinion. I neither own a .17 HMR, ever shot one, or know anybody who owns one so but I still feel that I can make some judgement calls on it. I have also have not shot a coyote with a .375 H&H but feel that I can make some basic assumptions that it might be a little overkill. The .17 crowd seems to agree that the range of animal needs to be considered (75 yds or less)when taking a shot so personally there is no way at that distance I would give up the larger slug and energy at point of impact.
 
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No, and neither are the wounded ones shot by people on this board that read this drivle and think that a 17 HMR or a 22 mag is adaquate for the job.

But Byron, the hummer and the mag are adequate for the job....they just need to read ALL the 'drivle'. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif


Like you said Vic, there are any number of guys that believe the 223 is too punny for coyotes.

Yup, you said it. What about a bow? Given a choice what would be 'better' a bow or a hummer? I know which one i'd kill more with. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

It is ammusing to me though how the sub-caliber proponants go into deffence mode and make excuses like "well you have to pick your shots, avoid bone, know your limits, and a host of other remidies to defend their anemic caliber of choice.

I find it interesting that all the not so 'sub-caliber' guys force a very obvious and simple issue to understand /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif. Once again i'd be curious to know how a chat would go concerning bowhunting's effectiveness, ethicalness, etc. etc. would go compare to a hummer? I do both and i can tell you which is the better coyote killin machine.

How effective is a super fast bullet that can't even penatrate the small shoulder bone on an aproaching coyote?

This question almost answers itself. Not very effective if you really must take the shot knowing its a bad shot opportunity...i would blame that more on the hunter for not waiting for the right shot opportunity. Much like the bowhunter who REALLY has to wait for the right shot opportunities. If one wants to kill them really dead at all angles, through shoulders etc., then they don't shoot them with these 'pellet guns'. Simple. Byron, if its all you had, if its all that was legal to shoot em with...you'd be killin em like crazy, you'd have learned the do's and don'ts etc. just like you did with the .223 and staying away from the prairie dog bullets. No diff.

For those of you that have confidence in them by all means use them to your hearts content.

We will, they work great.

For me, I'll stick with the heavier more dependable 22 centerfires and shotguns.

You've figured out how to make them work for you and that's what you like/can do it with, so, great, the more dead yotes the better imo.

I told myself I wouldn't get involved on this meaningless agument over pellet guns and coyotes so this will be my last post on the subject unless things get ugly. Then I'll have to go get MR. FROG, and things could get uglier. No offence Mr. Frog.

I know, its summertime pretty much though, what else to do? Is it uglier now? How many posts have yall read about having to finish coyotes that were hit with shotguns? I'd bet more are wounded with them than with mag rimfires, not saying its true but i'd 'bet' it would open some eyes.

Dang, how long till the fur is good?

No doubt, lol, where's Q, could have another good round about on the 'letting them raise pups for the summer' thing. But hey, your enjoying it, you've been into pretty much every controversial post i've seen for the last little while...you must have some time on your hand too eh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif.

Byron (Please, use enough gun) South /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Blake (figure out how to kill coyotes effectively regardless the tool and get to work) inator /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


p.s., not sure how this will all look in the end, i was hoping my words would be in a different color? only way to tell now is hit the submit button...here goes



Cool. It worked. The red is a little loud though, would do blue if to do again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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20 ounce "framing" hammer, pathetic, 28 oz. or nothing, any of you using a 20oz. are gonna get charged by a wounded 2X4 sooner or later. Geeeez 20 oz. is fer girls hanging pictures or sumthin.
I shot a 2 inch long Bat one time with my brothers 17, wounded it, it took off and killed everyone in the camp, including me.
Too bad Blake wasn't there.
Carl
 
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