17 MACH IV or 17 FIREBALL DILEMMA

H

Hutt

New member
I recently bought a Sako L-461 chambered in 17 MACH IV. I have no forming dies or FL/neck/seating dies. Cost for these is about $295. 17 Fireball dies in a three die set cost about $85.
Is it possible to re-ream to the fireball or is there another way to save on the dies I must purchase short of rebarreling at a cost of $300 for a new Shillen tube.
 
Go to a web site called "The Varmint Den". The fellow who runs it is Todd Kindler and he knows his stuff. He may even have some brass already formed. And go to the Saubier forum. You will find some great help there on the 17's. They have talked me into getting one. There are always used dies on the Saubier forum. And you may be able to use something else. Those guys are experts and they are very friendly. They will help you out.

I am going to cal Mr. Kindler tomorrow to see if he has any 17 HeeBee brass. Tom.
 
The 221 case has to be necked to .20 then .17. A .20BR die could work******, but whether it does or doesn't you'll need some kind of forming die, there's no way around that. Looks like the price has gone up quite a bit since the 80's. Bullberry makes a double-ended form die that supposedly works fine. I say "supposedly" because mine doesn't.....it would if the whole thing were threaded, but this one's from the 80's and the threads don't go to the ends. I understand they've been made differently for quite awhile now. Call Fred at Bullberry and talk to him.

Don't buy someone else's MIV brass. It was fired in their chamber. Wildcat reamers aren't spec'd the same. With blown out cases, chances of it fitting your chamber as it should are very slim. The MIV fireforms off a false shoulder that needs to headspace firmly in your chamber*******.....you want to feel crush when closing the bolt. Make your own brass, it's not that hard and fireforming will be just as accurate as with formed cases.



Edit******* Not worded quite right. Should've said....fireforms off a shoulder that, depending on the gun's chamber, may or may not be the same as where the parent case shoulder ends.
 
Not to nitpick, Hogghead, but Kindlers deal is called The Woodchuck Den. Also Lee will build a set of custom dies for under a 100$ if you can get them 3 fired casings. Obaro
 
Originally Posted By: AckmanThe 221 case has to be necked to .20 then .17. A .20BR die could work, but whether it does or doesn't you'll need some kind of forming die, there's no way around that. Looks like the price has gone up quite a bit since the 80's. Bullberry makes a double-ended form die that supposedly works fine. I say "supposedly" because mine doesn't.....it would if the whole thing were threaded, but this one's from the 80's and the threads don't go to the ends. I understand they've been made differently for quite awhile now. Call Fred at Bullberry and talk to him.

Don't buy someone else's MIV brass. It was fired in their chamber. Wildcat reamers aren't spec'd the same. With blown out cases, chances of it fitting your chamber as it should are very slim. The MIV fireforms off a false shoulder that needs to headspace firmly in your chamber.....you want to feel crush when closing the bolt. Make your own brass, it's not that hard and fireforming will be just as accurate as with formed cases.

What Ackman said...not to mention a lot of Mach IV's are "tight neck" and you'll need to turn the necks to get them to chamber. What I'd do is get a smith to do a chamber cast on your rifle to find out what the dimensions actually are. It's really the only safe thing to do.

That said, the differences between the Mach IV and Fireball are slight. You "might" get by by buying 17FB brass and dies and be able to set things up to fit your chamber. You won't know until you get the chamber cast done and figure out exactly what you have first.
 
Originally Posted By: HuttI recently bought a Sako L-461 chambered in 17 MACH IV. I have no forming dies or FL/neck/seating dies. Cost for these is about $295. 17 Fireball dies in a three die set cost about $85.
Is it possible to re-ream to the fireball or is there another way to save on the dies I must purchase short of rebarreling at a cost of $300 for a new Shillen tube.

You could just sell me the rifle, I've always wanted one in a sako. Dilemma solved lol.
 
Hutt, I have some 17 MKIV dies that I have no use for now, and never really listed for sale. Read up on the different ways to fireform, and decide how you want to go about it - that'll tell you what dies you want (ie, form & trim, neck, F/L, etc.), then PM me with what you want, and I'll send you a list. Maybe it'll help you out, and get some stuff outta my space! LOL! Sounds like a nice Sako.
 
Originally Posted By: HuttI recently bought a Sako L-461 chambered in 17 MACH IV. I have no forming dies or FL/neck/seating dies. Cost for these is about $295. 17 Fireball dies in a three die set cost about $85.
Is it possible to re-ream to the fireball or is there another way to save on the dies I must purchase short of rebarreling at a cost of $300 for a new Shillen tube.

Don't know what I was thinking of, but should have said to just try a 17FB case. It's nearly identical to the MIV. All Rem. did was change the MIV dimensions very slightly and standardize it for a production cartridge. Measure a 17FB neck with seated bullet and make sure your chamber doesn't have a tight neck, then see how it works.

Even if it takes a little bit to get your Sako going, it'll be worth it. My MIV's are built on the same small Sako. It's a beautiful action and perfect for that case.
 
My brother is becoming a gun smith and I wanted a 17 FB. But his college didnt carry that reamer and so he did some research and talk to his professor and just reamed it to a Mach4. Because there is hardly any difference the fireball is a tad shorter so i just use fireball brass, and dies its way cheaper.
 
Originally Posted By: 17tacticalSell or Trade for a 17 FB Rifle. Too much hassle otherwise...

I'm a big fan of the Model 7 in 17FB, but that's probably the worst advice I've seen on the www..
crazy.gif


Depending on who cut the chamber and who's reamer was used, the 17FB Brass may very well fit your MK4 chamber just fine.. Try a loaded factory round in your chamber before you do anything. You may be pleasantly suprised. If it fits, simply buy 17FB brass and then Neck-Size with a Redding Bushing die..
Several other ways to skin this cat too, but what ever you do,,, keep the Sako..
 
The tolerances allowed on the chambers overlap for 90% of the reamers. Unless somebody ordered a drastically different reamer dimension they are normally interchangeable.

Jack
 
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