17 Remington Vrs 17 Remington Fireball
- Thread starter Totch94
- Start date
venatic
Well-known member
I have the 17 Fireball/17 Mach IV and its a great little cartridge. No recoil and not very hard on barrels, I think they will sell a bunch of them.I think the reputation of the 17 Remington as having to be cleaned often to maintain accuracy has hurt its popularity which is somewhat of a wives tale these days. By the way where in Ms. are you, I grew up in Jackson and still work for a company based out of Ms.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
The barrel life of the 17 Rem is not great if you shoot colony varmints. The 17 Fireball should have at least twice the barrel life.
Jack
Jack
Totch94
New member
Thanks for the input gentlemen. Do you think this will be the end of the 17 Rem as a production cartridge?
Venatic,
I'm In Rankin Co just north of Brandon. Lived in Madison for several years until this summer and bought a place out in the county to raise my boy. Not quite as far in the country as I want to be, but I'm headed the right direction. I'm originally from southeast Mo, but have been in MS since I left home for Ole Miss at 18. You make it back to Jackson often?
Venatic,
I'm In Rankin Co just north of Brandon. Lived in Madison for several years until this summer and bought a place out in the county to raise my boy. Not quite as far in the country as I want to be, but I'm headed the right direction. I'm originally from southeast Mo, but have been in MS since I left home for Ole Miss at 18. You make it back to Jackson often?
HighCountry66
New member
I hope its not the end. I intend to get a 17 Remington soon in the LV SF.
There is alot of talk that people think the 17 Fireball will be a flop due to Remingtons poor marketing.
As of right now the both 17's are mainly reloaders rifles. The factory ammo is very limited in bullet selection and currently is only offered by Rem. If someone like Savage chambers for this round and Winchester or someone starts making ammo, I think it will be a success and probably revive the 17 Remington.
However I think the 17 Fireball could make a real nice fox round and still be good for coyotes up to 150 yards depending on the bullet and load.
JMHO
There is alot of talk that people think the 17 Fireball will be a flop due to Remingtons poor marketing.
As of right now the both 17's are mainly reloaders rifles. The factory ammo is very limited in bullet selection and currently is only offered by Rem. If someone like Savage chambers for this round and Winchester or someone starts making ammo, I think it will be a success and probably revive the 17 Remington.
However I think the 17 Fireball could make a real nice fox round and still be good for coyotes up to 150 yards depending on the bullet and load.
JMHO
Coyotejunki
Well-known member
Aw heck maybe Remington consulted with “Miss Cleo the psychic” /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
This new cartridge could be very popular. Let’s see how Big Green handles it. They pretty much did all they could to kill the 17 Remington. Rough barrels, not many ammo choices, etc. Though, I believe the 25gr Hornady HP is a fine coyote bullet, if you can get acceptable accuracy from the factory cartridges.
People who harvest pelts have known for years how well the 17 Rem performs on coyotes and such. Now you will be able to buy a factory-chambered rifle and factory brass to make coyote, fox, or bobcat loads. You’ll just need to cut about 100 yards off the max range from the 17 Rem. Finding one load or bullet for all three will still be a challenge for the pelt harvester, regardless of the cartridge.
For the “average” predator hunter, 2000-3000 rounds or more down a tube is kind of a moot point. It'll take a quite a while (many years) to kill a couple thousand predators. Heck, I’d be happy to kill 50 coyotes/ bobcats/ fox a year. I should be able to get at least 40 years out of that tube.
Colony shooters will buy this chambering too. It’ll out distance the 17 HMR. I hope they will help in making this cartridge a success. If only to get brass for their 17 Mach IV's, or 20 VarTargs. Shooting colony critters like rats and such is a different thing all-together, and this being Predator Masters forums; I will lead my opinion in the predator arena.
I do think Remington will shoot themselves in the foot by only offering cartridges with bullets for the red mist crowd. Reloaders will just reload with the best bullet they can find for there application. No different than hunters, right here, who reload for their 223, 22-250, 243, or whatever flavor, is used.
IMO, I sadly think many people will try this cartridge and get lots of runners, because the wrong bullet or poor shot placement was applied. Then they will believe you really need a 243, 25-06, chambering to kill a 20-30 average lb animal.
This new cartridge could be very popular. Let’s see how Big Green handles it. They pretty much did all they could to kill the 17 Remington. Rough barrels, not many ammo choices, etc. Though, I believe the 25gr Hornady HP is a fine coyote bullet, if you can get acceptable accuracy from the factory cartridges.
People who harvest pelts have known for years how well the 17 Rem performs on coyotes and such. Now you will be able to buy a factory-chambered rifle and factory brass to make coyote, fox, or bobcat loads. You’ll just need to cut about 100 yards off the max range from the 17 Rem. Finding one load or bullet for all three will still be a challenge for the pelt harvester, regardless of the cartridge.
For the “average” predator hunter, 2000-3000 rounds or more down a tube is kind of a moot point. It'll take a quite a while (many years) to kill a couple thousand predators. Heck, I’d be happy to kill 50 coyotes/ bobcats/ fox a year. I should be able to get at least 40 years out of that tube.
Colony shooters will buy this chambering too. It’ll out distance the 17 HMR. I hope they will help in making this cartridge a success. If only to get brass for their 17 Mach IV's, or 20 VarTargs. Shooting colony critters like rats and such is a different thing all-together, and this being Predator Masters forums; I will lead my opinion in the predator arena.
I do think Remington will shoot themselves in the foot by only offering cartridges with bullets for the red mist crowd. Reloaders will just reload with the best bullet they can find for there application. No different than hunters, right here, who reload for their 223, 22-250, 243, or whatever flavor, is used.
IMO, I sadly think many people will try this cartridge and get lots of runners, because the wrong bullet or poor shot placement was applied. Then they will believe you really need a 243, 25-06, chambering to kill a 20-30 average lb animal.
broknaero
New member
They are 2 different tools. The .17Rem -vs-.17 FB. I have a .17Rem currently, I want a .17FB but it wont replace the .17Rem. Theres a use for both.
I agree about the ammo. The 20gr accu tip it will be loaded in is too explosive for fur. It is a great bullet if you want to wound coyotes to fuel the Anti's. I wish there was some kind of warning on ammo boxes pertaining to what the bullets are constructed to do. For the average Joe.
Rem's idea behind the 20gr is so they can advertise 4000fps. Great bullet for varmints like said above. So those of us who want one for a calling rifle will just reload what we need. Just like we do with our .17Rems. The .17Rems been around awhile, and we still dont have any decent factory ammo.
I agree about the ammo. The 20gr accu tip it will be loaded in is too explosive for fur. It is a great bullet if you want to wound coyotes to fuel the Anti's. I wish there was some kind of warning on ammo boxes pertaining to what the bullets are constructed to do. For the average Joe.
Rem's idea behind the 20gr is so they can advertise 4000fps. Great bullet for varmints like said above. So those of us who want one for a calling rifle will just reload what we need. Just like we do with our .17Rems. The .17Rems been around awhile, and we still dont have any decent factory ammo.
GrouseSetter
New member
This is a rumor and should be given little weight until seen in print or real life. I have heard the rumor, from my local gun shop owner, that Savage will make a rifle chambered for the .17 Remington Fireball. We shall see. It would do something for the new cartridge if it actually happened.
GrouseSetter
GrouseSetter
NEVarmiter
New member
I can just hope CZ chambers this round soon. Remington could screw up a train wreck so I hope they get enough of them out there before they screw this one up also.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
I would be afraid to guess.
Jack
Jack
GrouseSetter
New member
I talked to my local gun shop owner again today. He told me that he had spoken to his Remington Rep and was told that the .17 Fireball rifles won't be on the productions lines until mid-February. If this is true, I don't see them hitting the shelves anytime before the end of March.
It's a waiting game from here, as it looks.
GrouseSetter
It's a waiting game from here, as it looks.
GrouseSetter
Ok, we need to get this straight for everyone. The .17 Fireball is not interchangable with the 17 Mach IV and a Mach IV will not chamber in a 17 Fireball.
You are right about Rem and the 20gr bullets. They are not for predators and they hope to bring out a 25gr load later. They are looking at this round for shooting PD's and such. However, there will always be someone that will use this for predators. You are right on Rem giving the .17 a bad name with their factory ammo. I hope the .17 Fireball ammo is much better. They are suppose to be looking at the .17 Rem to see what can be done to impove factory ammo.
The need to put Varmint load on the 20gr and Predator load on the boxes of the 25gr load to make sure everyone knows what it is for.
When I shot the 17 Fireball it was plenty accurate at 200 yds. with the .20gr factory load. The rifle was one of the Limited Edition CDL SS fluted models.
You are right about Rem and the 20gr bullets. They are not for predators and they hope to bring out a 25gr load later. They are looking at this round for shooting PD's and such. However, there will always be someone that will use this for predators. You are right on Rem giving the .17 a bad name with their factory ammo. I hope the .17 Fireball ammo is much better. They are suppose to be looking at the .17 Rem to see what can be done to impove factory ammo.
The need to put Varmint load on the 20gr and Predator load on the boxes of the 25gr load to make sure everyone knows what it is for.
When I shot the 17 Fireball it was plenty accurate at 200 yds. with the .20gr factory load. The rifle was one of the Limited Edition CDL SS fluted models.
I would not believe alot of what you see on the web concerning new products unless you believe they know what they are talking about. I have seen and shot the round out of the Rem rifles, myself, and have the line drawing in front of me from Remington. They are not the same. I am sure you could make Mach IV brass out of .17 Fireball if you had a mind too. I can and have made obselete brass out of new stuff that is similiar myself. I have looked at the 3 most common .17 Mach IV line drawings and it is similiar but not the same.
Venatic, will have to change my tune a little on the posts above. We have found the .17 Fireball will chamber in one of our Mach IV rifles but we have not fired it to see what happens. However, a fired .17 Fireball round shot in a Rem rifle will not chamber in our .17 Mach IV. Tight neck Mach IV chamber different than the Rem factory chamber. Not sure it we want to try it, might mess up a good rifle.
todbartell
New member
Im tempted by the CDL Ltd in 17 Fireball. I just bought a CZ in 221 Fireball, what a cool little cartridge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Can anyone tell us what exactly is the difference between the 17 Mach IV and the new 17 Fireball????? I have heard they are identical multiple times but have also heard they were different as well. Only thing I got quoted as different so far is the shoulder angle. Seems Remington could not copy someone elses wildcat without some sort of agreement. It would be easier to make a simple change and call it their own name but that would make it hard on the rifle owner not being able to use existng dies/brass.
dimecovers3
New member
I have read that the neck is longer on the Fireball. This keeps it from chambering in most common Mach IV chambers, but not sure and don't try to shoot it even if it does. The longer neck may have some advantage with a 25 grain boattail bullet, but I'm not sure. Maybe before Remington ruins this one too, they will offer a decent 25 grain bullet loaded at 3850, but I would'nt hold my breath.
The 17 Remington does everything the Mach IV / Remington 17 Fireball does and does it better, particularly with the 25 and 30 grain bullets in 17 caliber preferred for predators.
The Mach IV makes a great PD, fox, and bobcat round with the right bullet(s) and does it with less powder, recoil, muzzle blast, and heat. It's also real cool looking /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
If coyotes are on the menu, I'd stick with the 17 Remington and a 25 or 30 grain bullet and its higher velocity.
Problem is there is now only one factory rifle chambered in 17 Remington that is a walking weight: the 700 LVSF
The Remington Fireball is not offered in this rifle, nor has Remington announced a 25 grain loading. Not sure what Remington is thinking when they market their new offerings, but it seems kinda boneheaded to me.
A 700 in a sporter weight 22 inch barrel in full camo ala the new Savage Predator rifle would be a dream for a lot of guys. Put the new Nikon 2.5 x 10 x 42 Monarch on it and you're good to go.
The Model 7 would be the next best thing, I suppose, but I'd rather have a true 700 short action to start with if I decided I wanted to change or modify it.
If Cooper would chamber a Classic repeater in either round things would get really exciting. Maybe Kimber will fill the void till then, but not likely.
CZ would be the horse I'd put my money on to make this round take off with a factory loaded Hornady 25 grain HP a fella could get a rifle that shoots sub MOA out of the box and actually hit and drop what they were calling without ruining it. Maybe Federal will offer a premium load in the 25 grain Berger match bullet and then we would have something really nice....and maybe pigs will learn to fly too.
The 17 Remington does everything the Mach IV / Remington 17 Fireball does and does it better, particularly with the 25 and 30 grain bullets in 17 caliber preferred for predators.
The Mach IV makes a great PD, fox, and bobcat round with the right bullet(s) and does it with less powder, recoil, muzzle blast, and heat. It's also real cool looking /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
If coyotes are on the menu, I'd stick with the 17 Remington and a 25 or 30 grain bullet and its higher velocity.
Problem is there is now only one factory rifle chambered in 17 Remington that is a walking weight: the 700 LVSF
The Remington Fireball is not offered in this rifle, nor has Remington announced a 25 grain loading. Not sure what Remington is thinking when they market their new offerings, but it seems kinda boneheaded to me.
A 700 in a sporter weight 22 inch barrel in full camo ala the new Savage Predator rifle would be a dream for a lot of guys. Put the new Nikon 2.5 x 10 x 42 Monarch on it and you're good to go.
The Model 7 would be the next best thing, I suppose, but I'd rather have a true 700 short action to start with if I decided I wanted to change or modify it.
If Cooper would chamber a Classic repeater in either round things would get really exciting. Maybe Kimber will fill the void till then, but not likely.
CZ would be the horse I'd put my money on to make this round take off with a factory loaded Hornady 25 grain HP a fella could get a rifle that shoots sub MOA out of the box and actually hit and drop what they were calling without ruining it. Maybe Federal will offer a premium load in the 25 grain Berger match bullet and then we would have something really nice....and maybe pigs will learn to fly too.